Cupart

So, a week ago I got a mail from AF inviting me to join the Quality Observer Program for one specific flight I'm taking next Sunday but only on one of the segments from GVA-CDG-DUB.

Had to accept the invitation and download an app (which I haven't done yet so not sure if it still is valid) and apparently need to check in at certain points during my trip.

For my troubles, I can choose between getting 500 miles OR 20% discount in the AF/KLM shop

Anyone else done this previously?

orbitmic

Invited many times always refused. Downloading an app to do that sort of thing and for a measly reward is a complete no-no in my case.

Cupart

Damn it... I felt special there for a second

That said, I wish you a happy new year mon cher orbitmic

orbitmic

And mes meilleurs voeux 2014 a toi aussi, my dear Cupart! Plenty of good things!

Re-invites, my guess is that they are simply using the listing of the people who have answered surveys for them whenever it coincides with routes they have 'targeted' for that weird thing!

Mokshu

Funny they are looking at quality of flights operated by... WX!

ok986

Since no one raised this issue on Quality Observer program, I will. I've received the invitation too. Installed the app, and then went on to read the T&C and privacy policy.

What I found there shocked me. So Lumi Mobile (on behalf of AF/KLM, I presume) wants to have the right to the following (incl the right to sell this information further):
Am I the only person who finds this unnecessarily obtrusive?

q

Excellent, so who's the quality observer in the end?

Calchas

You certainly aren't.

A work around, until they change their policies: http://gizmodo.com/a-hidden-android-...et-r-920127169

San Gottardo

Got the invitation as well. For the CDG-ZRH leg of an intercontinental journey.

Why do they want me to be a quality observer? Even before taking the flight I can tell them what I think of that flight, I have taken it very very often. On a scale from 0 (worst) to 10 (best) the ground and flight experience on this route is somewhere between a 2 and a 3. And since they know that I have taken that flight so often from having access to my FB data, why don't they just ring me if they really want to know? They would get insights not only on that flight but also on what I think of their other routes (out of 10 it's a 4-5).

Of course talking to me would i) not give them Edward Snowden-type insights into my communication and ii) raise false hopes with me as their customer that they actually listen and change things for the better (I have used AF extensively for the past 17 years and I know that it is rather unlikely).

orbitmic

Air France should be utterly ashamed to participate in such a scam. To use big words (voluntarily), I find those conditions immoral.

San Gottardo

+1

brunos

Unbelievable.

Well after what we heard recently, nothing is unbelievable, but that AF joins such a scheme is shameful

nicolas75

AF would certainly love to understand how can a customer be so loyal and unhappy with them (just to make sure not to change anything as any investment would be a pure loss of money).

San Gottardo

So the logic is that there is no need for AF to change anything because in any case I use that route very often?

Believing that a frequent customer is a loyal customer is a fallacy. Believing that frequent custom equals high share of wallet is a fallacy.

Let's apply your logic to a hypothetical passenger. Someone who commutes every week between Paris and New York, in premium classes. Out of his >50 roundtrips per year he makes 12 on Air France. The passenger's feedback on AF is always underwhelming. But with 12 return trips a year you/AF would say "so what, he flies with us a lot despite not liking the product. So why try to loyalize him or why invest into the product, he flies with us anyway. Any investment would be a waste of money". Of course what AF doesn't see that this passenger uses AF only when he has no other choice, for instance because of scheduling constraints or because he has a connecting flight to a place that he would otherwise not reach or only with an airline he'd like even less. In those cases he is a captive customer. All the other 40 times when he does not have any constraints but a choice he flies on American Airlines, usually buys First Class, and also uses them and oneworld airlines because he likes their product, their lounges, their FFP. You/AF would not see those other 40 flights and you/AF would not see that this passenger can be even much more attractive than you believe he is. And because there is no effort to loyalize that customer the probability of you/AF getting more of that business is zero.

Not wanting to chase unconquered share of wallet is something that companies usually cannot afford. Sure, there are choices to be made about which customers are worthwhile to be pursued and with certain customers there comes a point where the marketing/loyalization costs exceed the added benefit. But that analysis is different than just concluding that the offer is good enough for a frequent user only because he is a frequent user. It ignores that he could be an even more frequent user.

To come back to me as the passengers whose behaviour/assessment you commented: I do fly CDG-ZRH quite a bit on AF, but it's not more than 5% of my flying on that route which I use sometimes several times a week. Even those 5% represent many flights and enough to make substantiated comments about their product. But to believe that I am loyal is a conclusion that you have made, and it's wrong.

It's always amusing to see how smarta## observations are mistaken for a major revelation, whilst the observer does not see the intellectual trap in which he just walked.

orbitmic

Indeed, I suspect that this is exactly the way they would see it... and indeed, they would be entirely wrong. He will correct me if I am wrong or speak out of turn, but it seems to me that people like San Gottardo do a vast amount of flying, mostly on expensive premium tickets. The fact that he still takes dozens of AF flights (because they are the direct flight, because the flight leaves at a more convenient time to him, because he has a segment left to use from a more complex itinerary to a place where only AF flew conveniently, etc) does not preclude him from taking hundreds of flights with AF's competitors, nor from chosing the competition when he has options available on both at comparable levels of convenience.

So I would argue that the "he hasn't abandonned us after all so we are certainly doing good enough" would be a complacent interpration and would denote a lack of ambition on the part of the airline. By contrast, trying to understand how doing things better could encourage him to fly AF MORE, notably when he has choice, and then figure out if that "more" (multiplied by the number of San Gottardo's around) would indeed make the investment "a waste" or would justifies justify some or all of it, in my view, be a far more sensible business attitude.

Over the years as FTer, I have always expressed scepticism towards people who say "I will never fly XX again!" because I think that that comment denotes a fundamental mistake in assuming that who we fly is "only" a question of airline preference. In many cases, it is not, but it equally does not follow that airline preference has no role to play. Over the past 10 years, with no change in what is most convenient for me, my proportion of AF flying has gone down to over 80% to under 10%. I used to go out of my way to fly AF even when they were no longer the most convenient, now I will sometime get out of my way to fly some of their competitors even when AF would be the most logical choice. Some airlines pro-actively try and evaluate what could encourage people to choose them more, but the questions I have answered in the many AF surveys over the year would never give them that information. I think it betrays a certain state of mind of many (by no means all) at the airline.

Apologies to the OP for the digression, I certainly don't want to take the thread OT (and to an area often discussed already), especially as it is interesting in its own right and as I think that the privacy issues mentionned above are very important and strongly suggestive that the airline is being at best negligent, at worst abusive in the way it allows a third party to collect and store excessive, highly private, and highly personal data from customers it asks to help evaluate service quality. Ultimately, when you sub-contract, it is your responsibility as a company to ensure that the people working on your behalf represent the values and morals which you would like to be associated with your own ethos. If AF did not ensure that, then it is a serious case of incompetence, if it did, then it is even worse and would suggest that the airline has somehow lost its 'soul' under the pressure of a major crisis.

NB: Just saw San Gottardo was answering at the same time and indeed, I'm reassured (and not surprised) he is going in very much the same direction as me (and more eloquently so). So again, apologies for putting words in his mouth when he was better placed than me to do so!