darcie_InsideFlyer

We are going to review Flying Blue in the January issue of InsideFlyer magazine and would like your input.

If you would like to participate, please post your response in the thread with the pros and cons of membership in Flying Blue and grade the program from A to F (A being the highest grade). You can include a plus or minus with the rating.

You can also respond directly to me at [email protected].
Thank you!

Arthur Randolph

I look forward to reading the FB review.

May I suggest you be slightly more specific in your request?. What about skimming through posts in this subforum from the past months to get a feel of the important issues affecting FB and coming back with a set of questions?

Cupart

This is going to be VERY interesting :-)

KLflyerRalph

Maybe look at the KLM (specific) "erosion thread" in the FD forum, which has some pros and cons on KL('s)/(FB).
I'm curious what mark FB will get...

more4less

From 3 to 9, being 3 lowest and 9 highest, a 2

Edit: Hi darcie_InsideFlyer, going through different post you can read a lot about the good and bad things about FB

brunos

This FFP evaluation has been already performed for many other airlines and I participated in a couple of them.
I will refrain from mixing my judgment of AF (and KL) products with that of FB. These are distinct questions.
As opposed to some other FFPs, FB does not have an elitist approach and provides little benefits for the premium traveler.

Pros:

- Very easy to qualify to Gold (lounge access) for French/European-based pax. Qualification can be achieved by spending on French AF Amex cards or 30 segments, even at deep discount fares.
- Not overly difficult to find award seats (compared to SOME airlines)

Cons:
The list is very long. Among those that affect me most:

- Earning rates are low and spending rates high.
- Totally unfriendly to members based outside of Europe. They cannot qualify for elite status on segments or AF Amex card and earning rates are desperately low both in discounted Eco and Biz (Z fare). It is much easier to reach lounge-access status (Gold on FB) with BA or *A airlines.
- Very few benefits for elite status. There are some benefits in terms of luggage and bonus miles, but overall benefits are low compared to other FFPs. No upgrade certificates or special promotions (or minuscule ones) for elite members, as opposed to many other FFPs.
- No recognition of top-elite customers. Elite are often treated as necessary evil by AF staff rather than as privileged customers. Gold and Plats have lounge access, but these lounges are mediocre compared to many competitors.
- Longhaul upgrading at AF remains mostly random (except for AF family/friends/staff) and not geared toward status pax.
- Awards in F are outrageously priced (two to three times the levels on other airlines).

Overall, FB is an unattractive FFP. It seems treated by AF as a cost center, a necessary evil because other airlines also have a FFP, not as an opportunity to retain its valued customers. I would rank it at F, on a scale from A (best FFP) to F. I maintain status because I fly AF for convenience and low fares, but the poor FFP is a negative factor not a positive one.

cfischer

o.k., I'll bite.

Overall rating: F+ (prior to 4/1/09 : B-)

Since April 2009 the FB program has fallen from somewhat decent down to unacceptable.

Pros:

- Easy Gold qualification via segments
- Plat for life after 10 years

Cons:

- Earn rates are horrible in coach and discounted business. Earn rates on many ST partners can be up to 4x lower than prior to 4/1/09 or in other programs
- AF and KL earn rates on own metal are 25% when flying on cheap fares; other ST programs (e.g. Delta SM) give 100% on the same fares; AF/KL is penalizing their own flyers on their own metal
- Compared to major European competitors and other alliances (e.g. LH/BA) both accrual and redemption are significantly worse and don't compare at all.
- Lounge access on domestic US itineraries removed as a benefit (LH still offers this benefit)
- F redemption rates have skyrocketed and are not competitive anymore
- Pretty much zero status recognition when traveling on AF (e.g. during irrops)
- No OPUP priority for Plats and other Elites; priority is based on fare paid and not status, overall spent or time in status
- Correction of any kind of missing miles is extremely tedious and time consuming. Certain tickets (e.g. upgraded with miles) routinely don't post and several follow-ups are needed to get this corrected.
- Partner award bookings are routinely not possible online and agents are often unwilling or unable to secure such tickets.
- Huge fuel surcharges on award tickets. 'Taxes' are often higher on award tickets compared to the same revenue ticket.

more4less

The above 2 posts are very precise in the Pros and Cons IMO.

I would only add, as a positive feature of FB, the Soft landing, but having said that, other FFP(M&M) grant status for 2 year periods, and afterwards only require that you qualify either of 2 years, so here again FB it is not an advantage in front of others.

Fly Upstairs

Generally agree here and grade the program at D-, with the following additions:

Pro:

*Award promos - going USA-EU for 50k in biz is unbeatable, and availability on these promo awards has, IME, been quite good.

*Silver gains 50% bonus award miles, gold = 75% bonus, which does outpace most competitors.

*1-way awards have been in place at 1/2 the round trip rate for some time now.

Con:

*Non-EU members are very rarely targeted for any promos

*Priority boarding is hit and miss AT BEST

*Poor award booking engine, clunky and on many occasions price and availability change as one clicks through the process.


Outside the standard pro/con/grade framework it cannot be overstated how much the negative impressions of the program have grown since 01-April-09. Most elites have pre- and post- devaluation experience and taking what was a A-/B+ program and sending it to D-/F+ territory feels FAR worse than that already large dropoff implies.

The longstanding issues with customer service, on-board product, and treatment of elites could be overlooked to a large extent due to what the elite member gained in benefits. Now, these issues are the same or worse and we the flyer get almost nothing for enduring the "travel experience" - not to mention the honor of paying more for that experience. It takes no time at all to see that the grass is greener just about anywhere but FB, so many of use have left for good.

cityflyer369

I agree on all the pros and cons mentioned above.

One more pro:
- KL day of departure upgrade for miles + cash

One more con:
- Eco to Business upgrades with miles on Skyteam airlines that do not use FB as their FFPs require very high Eco fare classes (mostly only Y class allowed, sometimes the two highest fare classes). Other FFPs (in- and outside Skyteam) have more favourable upgrades rules with respect to airlines within their own alliance. (See LH's M&M, for example, or, within Skyteam, DL's rules for upgrading KL tickets.)

My rating:
- before 1 Apr: A-
- after 1 Apr: D

alanw

What everyone else said. I doubt anyone chooses to fly AF or KL due to FFP considerations any more. Rather, they choose to fly in spite of the FFP.

Xandrios

I have the feeling that my experiences are different from some posted above.

Pros
- Easy to reach status. When flying within Europe, only 8-15 roundtrips are needed for Gold level. Even the cheapest fares quality. This is the main advantage of FB.
- When you have reached the Gold/Plat level you will receive at least 75% bonus miles.
- Promo awards are very reasonably priced. 50K miles + 200 euro taxes equals a roundtrip in business class between anywhere in Europe to the US. (Usually priced 2000 euro or up)
- The extended Amex card can be had for 180 euro. This includes earning miles (2-8 miles per euro spent) and also allows to give your full Gold/Plat status to two friends.
- Free access for a guest when using the lounges.

In between
- Earning miles is (imho) almost reasonable. Many people complain about only getting 25% miles on certain fares, however they forget that the fares they paid are substantially cheaper than they were before (Or would be now) with 100% miles. One can still get 100% miles; just be prepared to pay old fashioned fares for that.

Cons
- No lounge access when flying US domestically
- Hardly any extra privileges for Platinum members over Gold members.

Actually im surprised at the small list of cons. In fact, I believe most of the downsides that we experience are because of the executing airlines, ie, KL and AF. Some examples of that are:

- Priority boarding is pretty much non-existent.
- Status is not recognized in many cases
- No complementary op-ups

Thats my $.02. I would rate FB a C

KLflyerRalph

Maybe for the record, everyone could give a rating for the service before- and after 01-04 just like Cityflyer369

brunos

Hi Xandrios. I am happy that you are happy with FB.
As it is bedtime here, after some nice dinner and wine, I could not resist a quick comment on your post.
Any judgment on a FFP, or an airline product, has to be relative. So the question is how FB rate compares to other FFPs within ST, and more importantly with that of other airlines.. I have gold status in OW (BA EC) and *A (BMI BD) and frankly FB rates very poorly on most dimensions. For example:
- I do understand that discounted fares bring less money and could/should be earning less miles. Nevertheless all my other programs usually earn more miles. Of course, *A is notorious for favoring discount fares and provide 100% credit on many discounted Y fares. BA has recently improved its earning rate for elite pax, while AF decreased it. Even within ST, FB rates poorly in earnings compared to DL SM.
- I understand that you like the FB Amex card, but all FB have some local credit card that provide a lot of FFP benefits. These benefit costs are borne (and provided) by the credit card not the FFP.
- IMO the question is not whether Plat have more privileges than Gold, but rather that both Plat and Gold have very few privileges and no recognition. I think that you can trust the opinion of many posters here: other FFPs truly recognize their most valuable pax and treat them well. But as you said, it is so easy to qualify on FB that they do not seem interested to do much for them.

brunos

Hi Klflyer ralph.
To my travel pattern, a major change took place the year before the April Fools change. That is when they decided to basically remove the F award and significantly increased the miles for a C award to Asia.
Independently of the airline quality, I was rating FB A before that, C before April fools and F now.