halfdan

Last time I was there (September), one was reading a book and another was sleeping.

JOUY31

Sunday, Nov. 12th.
1) CDG - LHR on AF, flying from 2F2
- Pegase immigration check : 30 seconds
- Security check : 2 minutes
- No need to check my second bag
- 10mn ATC hold before landing
- Iris immigration check : recognition failed

2) LHR-CDG on AF, flying from T2
- 35mn queue for security check
- had to check my second bag
- late departure due to congestion
- Pegase immigration check : 30 seconds

Going back to LHR next Thursday and back to CDG on Saturday. Again with AF.

hfly

Yes we know for O/D is not that bad a nightmare, try making a Long Haul connection off of one of those flights (especially to the US) and then please post your experience.

San Gottardo

Jouy31,

I can confirm your experience at both the CDG and the LHR end as I am going CDG-LHR quite a bit myself, too. CDG is actually quite neat to get through when one knows one's way and if one has the right "equipment" (PEGASE for instance).

But I must also confirm that it's connecting that is troublesome. Just yesterday I was flying xxx-CDG-LHR. Arrival in 2F2, departure from 2F2. If I had queued up for the airside security check at 2F2, I would have waited at least 45 minutes. Instead: exit through passport (30 secs thanks to PEGASE) as if I was a Paris-terminating pax, go up to departure level, go in through passport and security as if I was a Paris-originating pax (thanks to PEGASE, that again took a mere 2 minutes). All in all, I was in the lounge 5-6 minutes later instead of 45-50 minutes later.

Of course PEGASE makes a big difference when one has it. I am glad that US passport holders don't get it.

I wish there would be more PEGASE channels throughout CDG, right now I have only seen them at 2F - any other installations? Haven't been to 2E in ages.

ClipperDelta

Thanks. We love you too and appreciate your thoughts. At least now we will continue to have an excuse to come here and b*tch about CDG connections

JOUY31

I haven't forgotten how enjoyable it was to use INSPASS when I was flying to LAX and it was indeed nice of the US to devise such a program. And I am definitely looking forward to its replacement . For the time being, the experimental Pegase project and the IRIS programme for the UK seem, unfortunately, to be restricted to the (extended) EU countries. I think it would be an improvement if Pegase could be used by US passengers who account for a substantial part of both connecting and O/D traffic at CDG and who are heavily impacted by the temporary demise of 2E.

AshleyB

The US dept. of homeland security is developing a system called Nexus to replace INSPass. Initially only for US and Canadian citizens it may be extended to all visa waiver nationals in the next two years or so, depending on US/EU agreements. Even so I expect that PEGASE will not be offered to non-EU persons, so creber will continue to have the pleasure of seeing our American visitors waiting miserably in endless queues!

JOUY31

Well, although AF funds the Pegase project entirely, I guess that, ultimately, the decision makers are the national police authorities.

NickB

IRIS is not limited to EU nationals and assimilated. Frequent visitors to the UK as well as individuals with a current entry clearance or long-term leave to enter and remain in the UK can also apply. In effect, as long as you don't need a visa or you hold a kind of entry clearance that does not expire on your moving out of the country, you can apply to joing IRIS. IRIS is different from Pegase, in that it is already in its operational rather than pilot phase.

JOUY31

Thanks for the update

AshleyB

Don't tell creber!

San Gottardo

Let’s see:

Traveling to the US means waiting for 1-3 hours in line at immigration, without the right to do anything (e.g., use phone), then be questioned by immigration officers who tend to find everything suspicious, risk being submitted to “special questioning” for another couple of hours in case the immigration officer decides that one entry stamp in Turkey makes you a terrorist (or that you are that one sought after terrorist man, even though you are female; or that you are a French citizen born in Morocco; etc.). There's always the risk of being sent back to your country without any proper explanation, as it is entirely in the officer's discretion to let you in or not. Alternatively you may have your laptop confiscated for up to a year, again without any justification. Of course one wonders why all that questioning is needed after the US authorities have already received information on my credit card, e-mail, gastronomic preferences, et al. and probably wouldn’t hesitate to use that data to peek into my personal sphere.

Don’t forget that this foolishness is even applied to passengers traveling on the same plane through the US, e.g. on a Paris-Papeete flight. One has no intention to go to the US, but one has to go through immigration at LAX. No logic or good reason behind it.

So far, so good.

Now in return for this welcoming treatment and for treating every foreigner like a potential terrorist the US would like its citizens to be given preferential treatment in Europe?!?! I don't think so.

Sorry guys, it’s nothing personal against either one of you. Just a result of the attitude in the US and the way passengers are treated at airports. Compared to changing from an international to a domestic flight in the US, transferring planes in CDG is a breeze.

ClipperDelta

Thanks again for turning a rational thread about CDG transfers into a political discussion. And BTW, no one here asked for preferential treatment for US citizens...I believe you were the one who started it all by saying you were glad Americans were not allowed to use PEGASE.

And BTW, at least the US INS is equally nasty to every foreigner, regardless of skin color or origin (or so you say)...the French, German, and in fact, most European immigration authorities take one look at anyone with a passport from Asia, Africa, Latin America, or the Middle East and automatically assumes they are trying to stay in Europe illegally or are a potential terrorist...there's a reason why experienced travellers arriving at CDG or FRA immigration lines studiously avoid lines where there are a group of 'dark-skinned' passengers ahead of them.

If you want to continue having this discussion go in this political direction, take it to OMNI.

hfly

creber, actually about 80-90% of your first paragraph could VERY EASILY apply to passing through French passport control or immigration, so that isn't really much of a difference, is it? I mean, have you ever been at the back of a queue at CDG behind a flight from Morocco and you yourself having arrived on a flight from IST?? Well that situation EXACTLY mirrors most of what you have stated above. As for the rest, it really depends on what airport you are talking about as different US airport have different characteristics, however at least in that case there is variety as you could be speaking about 20 different US airports (actually more) while if you are speaking about France you are primarily speaking only about CDG with only a few int'l flights necessitating passport control and real customs in only one or two other cities (and I am not including Strasbourg asits entire customs operation consists of two kiosks with bored officials that waive through UK bound pax).

San Gottardo

If it was for that one passing comment of mine that the thread got off road, then I am sorry for that and I'll stop it here. Just one point: there is a big difference in the freedoms a US immigration officer has as opposed to a French one. For instance, a French officer can't just confiscate your PC - there has to be a reason for it, holding up in front of a judge. In the US, officers can just confiscate it.

To bring it back to topic: I agree that immigration at Paris is quite badly organised. Not manning all kiosks at times of heavy arrival is making Air France's promised MCT quite difficult.

Anyone knows why the French Border Police don't get their act together?