odd availability
May 14, 2024, 10:44 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,973
odd availability
I really don't understand the availability logic. The E90 has a movable curtain to adjust business class space. They show 9 economy seats available, but only 2 business class seats.
that's the current seat map
Why would they sell 9 economy seats but only 2 business seats?
Reading from the seat map they have at least 3 sold business seats - with two rows there are 5 seats to be filled - assuming that there are three more business class passengers that have no seat reservation would explain why there are only two seats left to sell - however they could simply add another business class row to seat 4 more business class passengers by reducing Y availability by 4 -> resulting in J6 Y5
that's the current seat map
Why would they sell 9 economy seats but only 2 business seats?
Reading from the seat map they have at least 3 sold business seats - with two rows there are 5 seats to be filled - assuming that there are three more business class passengers that have no seat reservation would explain why there are only two seats left to sell - however they could simply add another business class row to seat 4 more business class passengers by reducing Y availability by 4 -> resulting in J6 Y5
May 14, 2024, 10:48 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: QF LTG
Posts: 1,201
What are you trying to ask? You have provided zero context about airline or anything. Just because a plane has a moveable curtain doesn’t mean they adjust it between every single flight, that would be absurd.
May 14, 2024, 10:51 am
#5
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 6,114
May 14, 2024, 11:00 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,973
May 14, 2024, 11:02 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,973
they can/do move the curtain after each flight if necessary. it's not absurd. they even move the curtain while it is still on sale - based on demand
May 14, 2024, 1:52 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / A3 Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Gold / TP Silver
Posts: 2,810
Few things you need to keep in mind
Airlines , when possible , decide on such things as fare class and other factors based on forecasting
If no historical data then they hire consultants or use an internal task force to seek a possible busines opportunity for a new route
Otherwise they use what's available from the past to predict what might be the optimal setting and then prepare accordingly .
Not to say that situation like this one cant change but focusing on just one instance of a specific flight on this route might not tell you the full story
Airlines , when possible , decide on such things as fare class and other factors based on forecasting
If no historical data then they hire consultants or use an internal task force to seek a possible busines opportunity for a new route
Otherwise they use what's available from the past to predict what might be the optimal setting and then prepare accordingly .
Not to say that situation like this one cant change but focusing on just one instance of a specific flight on this route might not tell you the full story
Last edited by fifty_two; May 14, 2024 at 2:21 pm
May 14, 2024, 11:52 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,973
Few things you need to keep in mind
Airlines , when possible , decide on such things as fare class and other factors based on forecasting
If no historical data then they hire consultants or use an internal task force to seek a possible busines opportunity for a new route
Otherwise they use what's available from the past to predict what might be the optimal setting and then prepare accordingly .
Not to say that situation like this one cant change but focusing on just one instance of a specific flight on this route might not tell you the full story
Airlines , when possible , decide on such things as fare class and other factors based on forecasting
If no historical data then they hire consultants or use an internal task force to seek a possible busines opportunity for a new route
Otherwise they use what's available from the past to predict what might be the optimal setting and then prepare accordingly .
Not to say that situation like this one cant change but focusing on just one instance of a specific flight on this route might not tell you the full story
I checked multiple flights for the next weeks and this pattern sticks J2 or J3 and Y9, sometimes even the cheap eco fare buckets have 6 or 9 availability.
Last edited by f0zzyNUE; May 14, 2024 at 11:59 pm
May 15, 2024, 12:31 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,385
If you bought the 2 available you might see more open up as the computer takes note and realises there is demand. Since you posted there's another seat taken but still 2 available which could be an indicator that's what already happened.
May 15, 2024, 1:13 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,737
I find it odd too.
AF1811 on 17/5 is now J0C0Y9B9...
No more seats sold by AF. That leads to no more seats in J on AF188 to HKG.
As expected, the J0 on AF1811 constrains J0 on the married segment AF188.
Other origins in Germany (e.g. FRA) have J availability.
Hence the question is why AF1811 seems constrained to have only 2 rows of J, while some other days have more. And why only 4 seats out of 8 are assigned (maybe theoretical seating means automatically blocking 4 seats if 4 J pax).
Could be a bug with the integration of Hop flights into AF system. Could be the number of FAs and their contract about number of J pax to be served. Could be some reasons that I do not know.
AF1811 on 17/5 is now J0C0Y9B9...
No more seats sold by AF. That leads to no more seats in J on AF188 to HKG.
As expected, the J0 on AF1811 constrains J0 on the married segment AF188.
Other origins in Germany (e.g. FRA) have J availability.
Hence the question is why AF1811 seems constrained to have only 2 rows of J, while some other days have more. And why only 4 seats out of 8 are assigned (maybe theoretical seating means automatically blocking 4 seats if 4 J pax).
Could be a bug with the integration of Hop flights into AF system. Could be the number of FAs and their contract about number of J pax to be served. Could be some reasons that I do not know.
May 15, 2024, 1:30 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,973
I find it odd too.
AF1811 on 17/5 is now J0C0Y9B9...
No more seats sold by AF. That leads to no more seats in J on AF188 to HKG.
As expected, the J0 on AF1811 constrains J0 on the married segment AF188.
Other origins in Germany (e.g. FRA) have J availability.
Hence the question is why AF1811 seems constrained to have only 2 rows of J, while some other days have more. And why only 4 seats out of 8 are assigned (maybe theoretical seating means automatically blocking 4 seats if 4 J pax).
Could be a bug with the integration of Hop flights into AF system. Could be the number of FAs and their contract about number of J pax to be served. Could be some reasons that I do not know.
AF1811 on 17/5 is now J0C0Y9B9...
No more seats sold by AF. That leads to no more seats in J on AF188 to HKG.
As expected, the J0 on AF1811 constrains J0 on the married segment AF188.
Other origins in Germany (e.g. FRA) have J availability.
Hence the question is why AF1811 seems constrained to have only 2 rows of J, while some other days have more. And why only 4 seats out of 8 are assigned (maybe theoretical seating means automatically blocking 4 seats if 4 J pax).
Could be a bug with the integration of Hop flights into AF system. Could be the number of FAs and their contract about number of J pax to be served. Could be some reasons that I do not know.
my guess is that the plane is oversold by a few seats in Y already - with the intent to put Y passengers into the open seats in the J cabin which basically fills up the front rows with no more seats to be sold (can't upgrade J passengers).
May 15, 2024, 2:50 am
#13
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,607
the most interesting part is that I was able to book a 79.000 oneway business class award two days ago on this itinerary. quite crazy for a flight that seemed almost sold out (at least on the feeder).
my guess is that the plane is oversold by a few seats in Y already - with the intent to put Y passengers into the open seats in the J cabin which basically fills up the front rows with no more seats to be sold (can't upgrade J passengers).
my guess is that the plane is oversold by a few seats in Y already - with the intent to put Y passengers into the open seats in the J cabin which basically fills up the front rows with no more seats to be sold (can't upgrade J passengers).
May 15, 2024, 2:53 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,973
seats are not an issue as the curtain can be moved and when a complete row is not occupied by business class passengers Y passengers can be upgraded. I don't see any logic behind closing J sales and having Y sales wide open on an Embraer with a fixed seat count and no seatblocking for business class passengers.
May 15, 2024, 4:34 am
#15
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Central Europe
Programs: DL GM, TK Elite+, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Silver, Accor Plat
Posts: 199
although in reality we don't know - but for my imagined scenario J5C2D1 would have made much more sense.