odd availability

Old May 14, 2024, 10:44 am
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odd availability

I really don't understand the availability logic. The E90 has a movable curtain to adjust business class space. They show 9 economy seats available, but only 2 business class seats.



that's the current seat map


Why would they sell 9 economy seats but only 2 business seats?

Reading from the seat map they have at least 3 sold business seats - with two rows there are 5 seats to be filled - assuming that there are three more business class passengers that have no seat reservation would explain why there are only two seats left to sell - however they could simply add another business class row to seat 4 more business class passengers by reducing Y availability by 4 -> resulting in J6 Y5
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Old May 14, 2024, 10:48 am
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What are you trying to ask? You have provided zero context about airline or anything. Just because a plane has a moveable curtain doesn’t mean they adjust it between every single flight, that would be absurd.
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Old May 14, 2024, 10:49 am
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This probably isn't the right forum, but:

There's 5 seats on sale. 2 in J, 2 in C, 1 in D.
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Old May 14, 2024, 10:49 am
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Did you intend to post this in the Air France forum?
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Old May 14, 2024, 10:51 am
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Originally Posted by NightlinerVIE
This probably isn't the right forum, but:

There's 5 seats on sale. 2 in J, 2 in C, 1 in D.
This is not true. There are only two seats on sale. They are willing to sell both of them at J or C fares/prices, but only one of them at D fares/prices.
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Old May 14, 2024, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by Traveller 935
Did you intend to post this in the Air France forum?
oops - yes - happens when you have too many open browser tabs 🙈
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Old May 14, 2024, 11:02 am
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Originally Posted by PbodyPhoto
What are you trying to ask? You have provided zero context about airline or anything. Just because a plane has a moveable curtain doesn’t mean they adjust it between every single flight, that would be absurd.
they can/do move the curtain after each flight if necessary. it's not absurd. they even move the curtain while it is still on sale - based on demand
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Old May 14, 2024, 1:52 pm
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Originally Posted by f0zzyNUE
Why would they sell 9 economy seats but only 2 business seats?
Few things you need to keep in mind

Airlines , when possible , decide on such things as fare class and other factors based on forecasting

If no historical data then they hire consultants or use an internal task force to seek a possible busines opportunity for a new route

Otherwise they use what's available from the past to predict what might be the optimal setting and then prepare accordingly .

Not to say that situation like this one cant change but focusing on just one instance of a specific flight on this route might not tell you the full story

Last edited by fifty_two; May 14, 2024 at 2:21 pm
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Old May 14, 2024, 11:52 pm
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Originally Posted by fifty_two
Few things you need to keep in mind

Airlines , when possible , decide on such things as fare class and other factors based on forecasting

If no historical data then they hire consultants or use an internal task force to seek a possible busines opportunity for a new route

Otherwise they use what's available from the past to predict what might be the optimal setting and then prepare accordingly .

Not to say that situation like this one cant change but focusing on just one instance of a specific flight on this route might not tell you the full story
it's just three days prior to the flight - I would like to buy three business class tickets from NUE via CDG to HKG - can't because there is not enough biz availability so I would need to stick with economy. Availability on the longhaul is wide open from CDG to HKG - just the feeder doesn't have enough J seats but many economy seats. that's the weird thing. Why sell economy and restrict sales of business class - that doesn't make any sense to me - other than that the flight is already overbooked.

I checked multiple flights for the next weeks and this pattern sticks J2 or J3 and Y9, sometimes even the cheap eco fare buckets have 6 or 9 availability.

Last edited by f0zzyNUE; May 14, 2024 at 11:59 pm
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Old May 15, 2024, 12:31 am
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If you bought the 2 available you might see more open up as the computer takes note and realises there is demand. Since you posted there's another seat taken but still 2 available which could be an indicator that's what already happened.
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Old May 15, 2024, 1:13 am
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I find it odd too.
AF1811 on 17/5 is now J0C0Y9B9...
No more seats sold by AF. That leads to no more seats in J on AF188 to HKG.
As expected, the J0 on AF1811 constrains J0 on the married segment AF188.
Other origins in Germany (e.g. FRA) have J availability.

Hence the question is why AF1811 seems constrained to have only 2 rows of J, while some other days have more. And why only 4 seats out of 8 are assigned (maybe theoretical seating means automatically blocking 4 seats if 4 J pax).

Could be a bug with the integration of Hop flights into AF system. Could be the number of FAs and their contract about number of J pax to be served. Could be some reasons that I do not know.
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Old May 15, 2024, 1:30 am
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Originally Posted by brunos
I find it odd too.
AF1811 on 17/5 is now J0C0Y9B9...
No more seats sold by AF. That leads to no more seats in J on AF188 to HKG.
As expected, the J0 on AF1811 constrains J0 on the married segment AF188.
Other origins in Germany (e.g. FRA) have J availability.

Hence the question is why AF1811 seems constrained to have only 2 rows of J, while some other days have more. And why only 4 seats out of 8 are assigned (maybe theoretical seating means automatically blocking 4 seats if 4 J pax).

Could be a bug with the integration of Hop flights into AF system. Could be the number of FAs and their contract about number of J pax to be served. Could be some reasons that I do not know.
the most interesting part is that I was able to book a 79.000 oneway business class award two days ago on this itinerary. quite crazy for a flight that seemed almost sold out (at least on the feeder).
my guess is that the plane is oversold by a few seats in Y already - with the intent to put Y passengers into the open seats in the J cabin which basically fills up the front rows with no more seats to be sold (can't upgrade J passengers).
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Old May 15, 2024, 2:50 am
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Originally Posted by f0zzyNUE
the most interesting part is that I was able to book a 79.000 oneway business class award two days ago on this itinerary. quite crazy for a flight that seemed almost sold out (at least on the feeder).
my guess is that the plane is oversold by a few seats in Y already - with the intent to put Y passengers into the open seats in the J cabin which basically fills up the front rows with no more seats to be sold (can't upgrade J passengers).
That does not align with Y9 availability though. More likely that AF historically sees high Y demand but low J demand last-minute. so they prioritize high margin Y fares.
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Old May 15, 2024, 2:53 am
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
That does not align with Y9 availability though. More likely that AF historically sees high Y demand but low J demand last-minute. so they prioritize high margin Y fares.
but then they could open up J9 Y9 (highest booking classes in both categories) when there are at least 9 seats left. whenever a seat is sold they reduce Y and J availability by 1 ...
seats are not an issue as the curtain can be moved and when a complete row is not occupied by business class passengers Y passengers can be upgraded. I don't see any logic behind closing J sales and having Y sales wide open on an Embraer with a fixed seat count and no seatblocking for business class passengers.
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Old May 15, 2024, 4:34 am
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Originally Posted by dkc192
This is not true. There are only two seats on sale. They are willing to sell both of them at J or C fares/prices, but only one of them at D fares/prices.
Yeah. My logic was flawed, sorry although in reality we don't know - but for my imagined scenario J5C2D1 would have made much more sense.
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