AirborneLocksmith

DL currently operates the Paris-Raleigh/Durham route daily (currently using a B767-400), but has previously announced a reduction to 4x weekly (MWFSu) from late October
AF has announced that they will start flying the route with a B787-9 3x weekly at the end of October, and it will operate MWF.
Obviously, DL and AF won’t operate the same route on the same days, so either DL changes their schedule to fly on different days of the week, or they stop flying completely during the winter season.

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/air...raleigh-durham

KLAS359

At the end of the writing: “An official announcement is expected later today.“

Guess we will know later today. Big for RDU at least.

AirborneLocksmith

It's official.
They will replace Delta on the route (i.e. DL not expected to come back and AF expected to operate it year-round).

"Air France will become the 15th airline at Raleigh-Durham International Airport (RDU) when it launches direct flights to Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport (CDG) in October. The airline will connect the Research Triangle to the City of Light when it takes over Paris service as part of its partnership with Delta Air Lines, which currently flies the route."

https://www.rdu.com/air-france-to-be...s-15th-airline

mlin32

Hope the joint venture includes both profit-sharing and pain-sharing, because I don't see this being a profitable route for AF. Feels more like AF is doing a favour for DL by taking over the route, guessing DL needs that 767 elsewhere. Honestly, AF should focus on adding more Asian frequencies.

6P&E

I've always wondered if it didn't make more sense for a non-US partner airline to provide the flights from US non hub cities. Wouldn't it make more sense for BA rather than AA to serve the RDU-LHR market? It would make for smoother connections for onward travel from LHR. Austin seems to be a good example of that with BA, KL, LH, VS

mlin32

There is almost no demand from the French market to travel to RDU (many wouldn't know where it is).

I don't see much demand from the American side to travel to Europe, and Raleigh is really a pharmaceutical city, not matching with the business centre that is Paris. Plus, most Americans hardly even have passeports anyway.......

6P&E

so what's the reason for the flight?

Goldorak

I would be curious to know on which fact or data you rely to make such a strong statement. This flight has been in place for several years now, with a 2 years interruption during Covid. It's been very successful when operated by DL When it started, it was a 757 an it was quickly upgraded to a 767 to meet a strong demand. I can tell you I know a significant number of people who are taking this flight very regularly and I flew it several times too.

LOL
I wonder who are all those Americans we see in the Paris street or in France/Europe in general...

Yes, RDU is a strong place for pharma industry and life sciences in general. Not matching with Paris ??? Really ? Are you aware of the importance of the pharmaceutical sector in France and especially around Paris ?

AirborneLocksmith

The RDU-LHR route is supported by demand from GSK (née GlaxoSmithKline), which has its global HQ in London and its U.S. HQ in Durham.
Is there a large French pharmaceutical company with a U.S. HQ in the Raleigh area that would create a similar demand for the RDU-CDG route?

San Gottardo

Exactly. For DL, they don't have crews based in RDU nor in CDG, so it's an overnight at a spoke city on both ends. For AF, it's only on one end. More economical.

What??

Precisely, Raleigh is a pharmaceutical city. Precisely, Paris is a business centre. "Business" which includes a lot of pharma-related activities: large pharma firms, smaller startups, research, academia, conferences, regulators. And not only in Paris, but also beyond, people can use CDG to connect. Plus, the RDU area is quite wealthy, with lots of demand generated from that. Connecting it to what is probably the second largest city destination in Europe for US travelers makes a lot of sense. Connecting it to one of Europe's largest connection hubs makes a lot of sense. And RDU can be a convenient connection point as well, there are DL flights from there to Florida and a couple of other US destinations; RDU because of its small size is certainly easier as a connection point than some mega airports with their long lines and risky connections.

And, yes, most Americans live in their sorry bubble and don't have passports. But there are 350M of them, so it only takes a small percentage that have a passport to still fill planes. And Europeans travel as well.

Words of wisdom. Thanks Goldorak

And I wouldn't be surprised if the RDU-CDG also has a contract with Sanofi. Sanofi has large operations in the RDU. Globally, Sanofi is a larger company than GSK. Sanofi has its global HQ in Paris. And who knows, maybe they also have a contract with other European pharma firms. The world's global #3 and #5, Roche and Novartis, are based in Basel - an easy connect through CDG.

This flight makes sense. I am unlikely to take it (never know...), but if I were, I'd be happy for it to be served by AF rather than DL. That's just personal preference.

AirborneLocksmith

They do? Judging by their own website, they seem to be unaware of that…
Neither one has any significant presence in the Raleigh-Durham area. In fact, Roche has no location in the area.

on.the.bowery

It's great news for RDU pax !

For those flying in J class, it's a small improvement. Going from the Thompson Vantage seat on the 764 to the Safran Cirrus II on the dreamliner. Massive improvement in catering.

For those flying in Y class, they're loosing 1 inch of pitch on the dreamliner. And I do prefer the more cosy 2-3-2 config of the 764.

As we all now, AF is focusing on transatlantic since it's harder to open profitable new routes to Asia with the current situation adding one to two hours on all flights.

​​​​​​Other than that, 2 million people live in the research triangle, whatever business is happening there.

wpugh

Hard to track down exact numbers, but a story from 2019 said that 367 French companies have offices in North Carolina. Based on the economy of the state, I would guess a big chunk of those are in the RTP area. Additionally, I think a big part of the success of the flight is tied to connections at CDG, particularly to India (there has been a push locally to get a direct flight from RDU to any city in India, though that probably won't happen anytime soon). In any event, by all accounts the Delta RDU-CDG flight has been very successful. I think that is evidenced even more by continuous upgrades to larger planes - and now an even bigger upgrade to a 787. There is a next to zero chance that AF is undergoing the probably considerable expense to begin flying to a new international destination just because they felt bad for Delta and wanted to help them out.

saaveraward

Who do you have to bribe at AF to get award inventory loaded on this route?

on.the.bowery

Send 2 boxes of Château Margaux at 45 Rue de Paris, Roissy, France and your request might be considered.