La Premiere routes
#106
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Wouldn’t that be even more true for a destination like MEX or DEL or JNB or PEK? And yet, ABJ gets the P flight.
Admittedly, it would take one more plane to (re-)open any of the above routes than it takes to serve ABJ. But didn’t someone here analyse that they do have enough?
Admittedly, it would take one more plane to (re-)open any of the above routes than it takes to serve ABJ. But didn’t someone here analyse that they do have enough?
La Francophonie, though, tends to have strong O&D to Paris. The going rate for P to ABJ appears to be about 10k USD one-way for this monopoly route.
#107
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
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What is there in ABJ that warrants such demand for LP? I can't for the life of me believe that AF can regularly be more profitable there compared to ICN or PVG/PEK/HKG. Heck, even YVR has a much more wealthy population as a whole. The only thing I can think of is the post-colonial connection of Ivory Coast to France.
With the decrease of number of aircrafts with P they actually have and their policy to increase the fares +++, they likely have seen that they can make more profits on the other current routes. We'll see what happen with new aircraft equipped with P.
#108
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: DTW, IST, ESB
Programs: AF/KLM Platinum, Marriott Platinum
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Sure, I get that there is a Francophone relationship which the Far East doesn't have. And yes, I don't know the African market, but that's my point - something has to be in play other than just pure wealth of the destination populace. If you're saying that it's due to diplomatic traffic, ok that's understandable. If you're saying that the rich in Africa are more willing to splurge, then sure.
In the end, as others have stated above, maybe AF doesn't see as much demand for LP for various reasons. Maybe KE F is good enough for wealthy Koreans. Maybe Chinese prefer the CX and MU F cabins because they're simply much cheaper. Who knows.
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
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No offense taken. However, If we are talking about pure wealth, no way the current/former African LP destinations are wealthier than the business/family wealth population of China or Korea. Don't even go there. There are some wealthy people, but it's MUCH more heavily saturated in the Far East - China alone has more millionaires AND billionaires than any country other than the USA.
Sure, I get that there is a Francophone relationship which the Far East doesn't have. And yes, I don't know the African market, but that's my point - something has to be in play other than just pure wealth of the destination populace. If you're saying that it's due to diplomatic traffic, ok that's understandable. If you're saying that the rich in Africa are more willing to splurge, then sure.
In the end, as others have stated above, maybe AF doesn't see as much demand for LP for various reasons. Maybe KE F is good enough for wealthy Koreans. Maybe Chinese prefer the CX and MU F cabins because they're simply much cheaper. Who knows.
Sure, I get that there is a Francophone relationship which the Far East doesn't have. And yes, I don't know the African market, but that's my point - something has to be in play other than just pure wealth of the destination populace. If you're saying that it's due to diplomatic traffic, ok that's understandable. If you're saying that the rich in Africa are more willing to splurge, then sure.
In the end, as others have stated above, maybe AF doesn't see as much demand for LP for various reasons. Maybe KE F is good enough for wealthy Koreans. Maybe Chinese prefer the CX and MU F cabins because they're simply much cheaper. Who knows.
#110
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: DL LOL, Mosaic, UAL Silver, MR Titanium
Posts: 115
I believe that they have 19 birds with P, so a total of 76 seats. Let's say that 2 are in maintenance or backup, that leaves 17.
While there are 13 (not counting MEX) daily departures from CDG, birds are also flying the inbound.
Some destinations are far away (e.g. SIN), so needs more than one bird for the return trip.
That should allow 13 daily flights from CDG and to CDG. Meaning that on a given day, AF can sell 52+52 = 104 P seats.
While there are 13 (not counting MEX) daily departures from CDG, birds are also flying the inbound.
Some destinations are far away (e.g. SIN), so needs more than one bird for the return trip.
That should allow 13 daily flights from CDG and to CDG. Meaning that on a given day, AF can sell 52+52 = 104 P seats.
#111
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PAR, TYO, SEL, SIN, SYD
Programs: AF/KLM Platinum Ultimate, VA Velocity Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 725
In the case of Africa, AF has long enjoyed a monopoly on P traffic out of the continent. Over the years EK and LH have been trying to erode that with varying degrees of success. Honestly you just need to look at AF’s J prices to some of these destinations, they are absolutely eye watering!
They also served as quick turnarounds for fleet utilisation whilst being able to take a bit of cream from the top of the market. Once again, quite niche but lucrative for AF.
PVG and HKG will come back eventually. I believe PEK also had LP? I know a few in the diplomatic circles in Europe and Africa that always favoured LP for trips to and from PEK.
ICN just isn’t a high yield premium destination for AF. For the longest time they sent planes with the smallest J cabins possible with capacity bumps during the summer. KE provides a lot of capacity in the market and having flown on their A380 a few time I can tell you that unlike LAX and JFK, CDG was often empty up front. And thats with Koreans highly preferring their own airlines. Chinese airlines also absolutely decimated yields on that axis.
Lastly, I think CGK was also a LP destination about a decade ago during the days of the short 5th freedom tag to CDG-SIN. That obviously didn’t last long.
They also served as quick turnarounds for fleet utilisation whilst being able to take a bit of cream from the top of the market. Once again, quite niche but lucrative for AF.
PVG and HKG will come back eventually. I believe PEK also had LP? I know a few in the diplomatic circles in Europe and Africa that always favoured LP for trips to and from PEK.
ICN just isn’t a high yield premium destination for AF. For the longest time they sent planes with the smallest J cabins possible with capacity bumps during the summer. KE provides a lot of capacity in the market and having flown on their A380 a few time I can tell you that unlike LAX and JFK, CDG was often empty up front. And thats with Koreans highly preferring their own airlines. Chinese airlines also absolutely decimated yields on that axis.
Lastly, I think CGK was also a LP destination about a decade ago during the days of the short 5th freedom tag to CDG-SIN. That obviously didn’t last long.
#112
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,879
In the case of Africa, AF has long enjoyed a monopoly on P traffic out of the continent. Over the years EK and LH have been trying to erode that with varying degrees of success. Honestly you just need to look at AF’s J prices to some of these destinations, they are absolutely eye watering!
They also served as quick turnarounds for fleet utilisation whilst being able to take a bit of cream from the top of the market. Once again, quite niche but lucrative for AF.
PVG and HKG will come back eventually. I believe PEK also had LP? I know a few in the diplomatic circles in Europe and Africa that always favoured LP for trips to and from PEK.
ICN just isn’t a high yield premium destination for AF. For the longest time they sent planes with the smallest J cabins possible with capacity bumps during the summer. KE provides a lot of capacity in the market and having flown on their A380 a few time I can tell you that unlike LAX and JFK, CDG was often empty up front. And thats with Koreans highly preferring their own airlines. Chinese airlines also absolutely decimated yields on that axis.
Lastly, I think CGK was also a LP destination about a decade ago during the days of the short 5th freedom tag to CDG-SIN. That obviously didn’t last long.
They also served as quick turnarounds for fleet utilisation whilst being able to take a bit of cream from the top of the market. Once again, quite niche but lucrative for AF.
PVG and HKG will come back eventually. I believe PEK also had LP? I know a few in the diplomatic circles in Europe and Africa that always favoured LP for trips to and from PEK.
ICN just isn’t a high yield premium destination for AF. For the longest time they sent planes with the smallest J cabins possible with capacity bumps during the summer. KE provides a lot of capacity in the market and having flown on their A380 a few time I can tell you that unlike LAX and JFK, CDG was often empty up front. And thats with Koreans highly preferring their own airlines. Chinese airlines also absolutely decimated yields on that axis.
Lastly, I think CGK was also a LP destination about a decade ago during the days of the short 5th freedom tag to CDG-SIN. That obviously didn’t last long.
And then of course there were the times when every plane in the long haul fleet had First Class (Espace 180 on B747s, A340s, etc) and every little hamlet in Africa served by AF had Premiere service. But that was before the serious upgrading of Premiere to the version preceding the current one (the one installed on the A380 and also 777s) and the launch of the dedicated Premiere lounge (first, as mentioned above, on the upper floor of the current 2K lounge, and then later on moved to its dedicated space, where it still is today) and the car service.