bostontraveler

But then wouldn't that be beyond the scope of French law?

French law currently doesn't allow exit of its territory to non-EU destinations. How can they say that departing legally from another destination where one has traveled legally (Germany, Spain, Italy)... is an infringement of the law, especially if you are not a French citizen? So I went to Milan, had to go to NYC. That's my right per Italian law.
I think it would in theory be difficult to find this illegal though in practice you could get a stubborn PAF employee who doesn't like you for any reason but will really enjoy making your day a bad one.

My (poor man's) interpretation would be that they don't care. You travel to an EU country which is permitted travel.
Then you leave the EU/EEA.
You then re-enter France directly (greater chance of scrutiny) or to DE/IT/ES (less scrutiny).

I am not advocating this as a solution, I'm just saying that it seems to me that this is the only "escape valve" I see until this is (if ever) litigated.

What do you think?

Yul_voyager

You would be more safe to buy a ticket to FRA or ZRH and then take the train to go to France. But if they check the PCR test it would be from outside of EU which could raise suspicion... So you can stay a couple of day in Germany / Switzerland and get a new test here but your travel becomes quite more complex...

bostontraveler

Yes but the real issue here seems to be restrictions on exit, not entry.

brunos

I don't understand your point here.
From an entry legal standpoint, anyone who has been outside of EU+ for the past 30 days must fill the certificate of travel for pax arriving from a non-EU country. You are basically under the same restrictions that apply to a direct arrival from non-EU countries (departure before 31 January or compelling reasons).

Then the question is how do you cheat, as I don't find any legal loophole. Will the French authorities find out? I am talking here about entry in France:

1) A one-ticket flight (e.g. HKG-FRA-CDG on LH) will likely not work. If check-in agents are up to speed on the French requirements they will not accept you onboard. I have no idea if that is the case.
2) A separate ticket arrangement is risky too. Risk of misconnect.;risk that the PAF will detect that your PCR test is from third country, risk that their passport investigation will show that your last exit was to a third country (unless you left France for EU).
3) A flight to EU plus land transport is probably safer.

Not that I favor flouting the law..

bostontraveler

In response-

1) Why not? Here is where I am not understanding you. We all seem to agree that returning to France is permitted for residents, correct? If that is the case, what does it matter where I am coming from?

2) I am very aware of those eventualities.

As things stand France has banned overseas travel (ex-EU) from France.
Yet intra-EU travel is permitted.

What legal right does France have to tell me I can’t travel out of the EU from a third country like IT/DE/CH etc? This is not an EU directive, it’s a French directive.

Is there a step I am missing here?

brunos

I fully share your frustration that France has decided to impose constraints based primarily on residency rather than nationality. My guess is that they decided that they could not discriminate based on nationality given that they are a respectful EU member .Whether this is legal is another question.

Remember that my situation (French national residing in Asia) is quite different from yours (EU national residing in France). Hence my viewpoint is a bit different from yours.

Nevertheless, I disagree with you on your first point 1).
The website keeps being updated.
Currently French and EU citizens can only return to France from a non-EU country if:
- they travel to France for a compelling reason
- they are French residents and left before 31 January or they left with a compelling reason.

That is true even if you enter from Italy but have been in a third country for the last 30 days. For example if you left for the US via Italy to visit family in US in February, without a compelling reason, you are not allowed to return to your main French residence.
France cannot prevent you from going to Italy as you are Italian citizen. But they can prevent you from coming back from a third country, whether directly or indirectly through EU.

Do you disagree with me? Whether that French regulation is "legal" or enforceable is not the question here.

Goldorak

You are probably correct (it could work), but Yul_voyager has raised a very relevant issue below : unless you stay 3-4 days in the "transit Schengen country" when you return, you will have to present a PCR test <72hrs when crossing the French border (at CDG, a train station or a land border) and obviously the test will have been done outside EU, and so it may raise suspicion

Indeed !

maalloc

I'm not sure that is actually the case.
As you can see from the forms, the "return to home residence" for those who left before Jan 31st or after with a valid reason does not require extra proof.
The attestation doesn't ask you to list the compelling reason that made you leave, nor does it list any document that could serve as proof. It seems implied that, if you left, it was legally and you can come back freely.

My understanding is that this is a loophole that was purposefully installed to make sure that french residents are, for all practical purposes, always allowed to go back home in accordance with UDHR. Of course it doesn't help you if you have French citizenship and HK residency.

blairvanhorn

Indeed; Miami, San Francisco and Los Angeles as well. No experience with NYC.

blairvanhorn

This is how I've understood the forms as well.

bostontraveler

So in essence, France cannot stop an EEA citizen from traveling within Europe and then going elsewhere. However, one would risk eligibility for admission returning to France.

And that is where I am unclear.

If you are an French resident (and an EU citizen) - if I have understood correctly - it's been stated a few times here - there is no need for a compelling reason- a motif impérieux- to be able to return. Several posters have said that France would not stop residents from returning- regardless whether they left before 31 January or after. Is this the case?

If that is the case and I have a EU+US passport+permanent French residency, I could in theory travel freely to the US without any motif impérieux and return directly to France. No need for a third country deviation either.

If I wanted to go to Brazil, it would be a bit more challenging.

Hoping that frames the scenario more clearly.

maalloc

The way I see it, you could exit France mainland by showing your US passport, then go back by checking the box stating that you had a "motif imperieux" when leaving after Jan 31st.
I highly doubt that the PAF maintains a database of which reason was checked on the outbound attestation.

It is a loophole, but multiple passports/residency permits have been allowing all kind of travels since March 2020 for lots of people, so it's not that far-fetched.

Amrikibibaris

Personally, I think it's a huge risk until we know more about what is happening to travelers returning from trips they started after the restrictions were imposed. I would assume that most people arriving still are travelers who left France prior to 31 January or have started their "voyages aux motifs impérieux" from non-EEA countries. I, for one, cannot believe that the "helpful" police at the check-in counters, along with the airline agents, didn't provide some word to those leaving, say, on a U.S. passport with legal and primary French residence and invoking the "joker" box on their form to return to their country of origin about their chances of returning. Similarly, I could imagine a similar conversation about the need, for those leaving with a genuinely urgent reason, to keep with them all their documentation for leaving to justify their return trip. There may not be, as maalloc states, a bounteous PAF database to track all this. But that doesn't mean people won't be hassled by PAF officers without a lot of other things to do with the few arriving passengers than shake them down, intimidate them, and possibly "make an example" of some. The only demonstrated certainty so far is that the GOF wants to show off its toughness as regards international travelers.

As if to strengthen, however, what maalloc and others have claimed, I heard from an AF contact at IAD making a similar point about those with primary residence in France likely being allowed to return no matter what but others, including French nationals whose primary residence was not in France without an urgent reason, would be denied boarding. I remain skeptical in terms of my own situation, so I've gone back to ask for some clarifications, since I'm not sure 1) they're yet dealing with post 31 January outbound travelers from France wishing to return and 2) they're au fait with the current version of the attestations.

My current thinking is to push my trip back a month to March. I've asked for any word as to whether AF's IAD station might shut down again due to these restrictions. That might at least give some clue as to whether the airlines have gotten a backchannel clue from the GOF as to the duration of this restriction.

San Gottardo

But they may ask for the original documentation that was used to prove the motif imperieux for departure. No need for them to keep a data base, just check that the passenger has *a* motif imperieux. Whichever, even if it's a different one than declared upon departure.

A passenger arriving without documentation for his motif imperieux that permitted the original departure may have a problem.

Would be interesting to hear from citizens/residents who have arrived in France from ex-EU to learn from them what has been checked upon arrival.

San Gottardo

One other thought: travelling via another European country back to France may not be that easy. For instance, if you fly through Zürich, you may have to quarantine in Switzerland for 10 days. Unless you only stay for 24 hours, but in that case you won’t get a PCR test in Switzerland but will arrive in France with a PCR test from your ex-EEA country, and you will be treated like somebody coming from ex EEA rather than from Switzerland to, and your important reasons will be checked and may need to be documented. Similar rules apply when travelling on separate tickets through other countries like Germany, or the Netherlands.