Chuvash

Absolutely ludicrous they would block travel out. Although worst case scenario you can see the €135 as an exit tax.

I am flying back to the US this weekend and will report back on the experience at CDG.

brunos

If they are foreigners and travel to the USA, there will be no rush to travel and no French restrictions.
If they are French citizens with no business reason to travel to USA, we have to see details of the decrets which will focus on domestic travel.

As far as travel/entry in the past episode, announcements were very strict to "scare" the public, but it turned out that it was not overly difficult to fly for some kinds of reasons.

maalloc

If you are a French national trying to travel abroad, the question is: would you be able to pass the border control where they check your "attestation". Not sure if slapping €135 on the counter would help someone in case of an overly-zealous police officer

Chuvash

Well my understanding is the issue is about getting to the airport and not crossing the border per say.

I don’t think it would come to that anyway. You just have to make up a “business letter” stating you are urgently required to attend an executive business meeting in Copacabana or Cancun. It’s all highly confidential so you can’t discuss further.

NickB

Yes, I can: the responsibility of the French government to take appropriate measure to prevent the spread of the virus within France. It is not the responsibility of the French government to take measures to prevent the spread of the virus in, say, Ireland. That responsibility befalls on the Irish government and the Irish government decides what measures are appropriate to prevent the spread of the virus on its territory. If I travel abroad, I do not create a risk for spreading the virus in France and, therefore, there is no public health justification that the French authorities could invoke to restrict my movement. The country I am going to can take measures to manage the risk that I create. They could, for instance, decide not to allow me on their territory altogether, put me in quarantine, etc.. but it is for them to decide as the risk I create in on their territory, not the French territory.

FWIW, there is caselaw of the ECJ (regarding the free movement of services but there is no reason not to apply it to the free movement of persons) to the effect that it is not the responsibility of a Member State to look after the interests of other MS and their population and use that as a reason to restrict free movement from its territory to that of another Member State. It is for the Member State of destination to decide what measures are needed, if any, to protect its own population.

Braniff

I came into CDG on an Air France flight from Portugal today. Full flight - lots of families returning from vacation during the French school holidays. The flight attendants distribute a form for you to fill out with your contact details and collect it prior to arrival. At CDG, you pass through immigration even if it is a Schengen flight. No questions asked for European passports. A Japanese man next to me at immigration was asked about the purpose of his visit and he said he was flying on to Tokyo the following day and that was it - wasn't asked to show an onward ticket or anything. No medical screening or questions.

A very pleasant travel experience as indeed all my travel experiences have been during Covid - aside from onboard catering 😄

Concerto

So it is possible to transit Paris (remaining in CDG) without too much difficulty? I would be going from Germany to Geneva, but I'm not sure any flights are going to be operating when the need to travel comes. Will probably end up back on the train.

Goldorak

yes, it’s no problem transiting in CDG.

Goldorak

I see your point and I share your view on this. But I can tell you that’s not the way the French government is seeing it (unfortunately). And this is not limited to France. I remenber having read a story on FT of a Belgian citizen who was blocked in CRL last summer departing to Albania for holidays (IIRC), because Albania was not on the green list of non-Schengen countries allowed for EU citizens. This is total BS but that’s how it is unfortunately.

IstKong

I agree with what was posted above by NickB regarding this issue.

To me, it's a total disgrace to forbid citizens to leave their own country. Very, very few countries are doing this actually. In democratic countries, I think that only Australia, maybe NZ don't allow their citizens to leave due to COVID.
In normal times, only countries like North Korea or Erythrea do such things.

The responsibility of the french government is to prevent the virus from damaging France, and I must say, regarding this matter, they badly failed ! Why would they care about french citizens spreading the virus in foreign countries ?

They only do this because they want to tell the population that one cannot bring the virus from abroad : that's stupid because France is one of the hardest hit country in the world. The virus is not coming from abroad : he is mostly coming from french citizens living in France !

And what about peoples thinking of fleeing definitively this country and never coming back ?! They cannot leave either ?

This is only irresponsible politics. Countries who manage the virus better than us, with efficient testing and isolation, like Germany, discourages travel but don't ban it.

Also, international treaties signed by France (ECHR, Geveva convention for refugees...) totally prohibits governments from forbidding their citizens to leave their own country.

I personally cannot travel for the next weeks/months so it wont hurt me, but I suggest people who are suffering from this, to raise this issue to courts.

They should add a box on the so-called "attestation" for those who are going immediately to a border to leave the country without a "compelling reason".

San Gottardo

About leaving France, there is no contradiction between the 1km rule and the possibility to leave the country:

• The 1km rule applies to "leisure activities", such as jogigng or walking the dog.
• Other things such as going to work or buying something in a shop that is open is allowed, without any limitation on distance.

So, if you travel abroad for business, just tick the box for "going to work". No rule in France says that work cannot be in New York, Milan, or Shanghai (whether they let you in is a different quesiton, but not of relevance for the French legislator). For instance, I plan to travel to Switzerland, and fill in an employer's form myself - I am a Managing Director of my company in Switzerland, so I can sign myself on behalf of the company (and I have foreign passport and foreign address in addition). Same thing, you can travel to see your kids or elderldy parents. If you want to travel just for leisure, well you aren't supposed to and the rules don't allow it.

What is confusing though: I have seen news reports that state that a negative PCR test is required to enter France, irrespective of whether you arrive from a EU/Schengen/UK country, or a country outside that area. Other sources say that negative PCR test are required only for passengers arriving from non-EU/Schengen/UK. Anyone knows more or can point to an unambiguous source?

maalloc

Yes, that is true. The only issue someone should face is at border control, when the proof of legitimacy of your "work travel" will be checked.
Not sure what documents constitute a valid proof - and as far as I know, there is no law or decree that specify this yet.

This was clarified yesterday on official websites.
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/le...vos-questions/

Basically, when traveling back from EU+ countries, no test is needed. If traveling from other countries, you need a pre-departure test or an arrival test. Note that different tests seem to be accepted now as PCR is not explicitly specified, so one should be fine with an antigen test.

Goldorak

In that case you have no problem indeed, as you can provide all evidences needed to a police officer in case of control.

Yes, this is exactly what I was pointing out.

Journalists/media always struggle to deliver correct and non-ambiguous information. There is no requirement of a PCR test to enter France from Schengen & non-Schengen EU/UK.

NickB

Albania is outside the EU so that makes things more complicated in terms of challenge but restricting movement to another EU/EEA Member State (or the UK until the end of the year) without valid public health justification (or public policy/security justification) is contrary to EU law.

Actually, this is not a valid ground of movement as such. You would need to establish that there is a motif familial impérieux, which they seem to interpret as situations characterised by a certain degree of urgency and where it is patent that the individual clearly has to travel right now to address the issue (eg: death, serious illness of a relative, imminent danger or need for assistance for them, etc...).

It is not just 'leisure' travel that is not covered by the rules. It is travel for any reason other than one that is specified in the legislation. Strictly speaking, the legislation would seem to not even allow you to return home if you are resident abroad. This may seem strange but it is not one of the recognised derogations in there. Also: what if I have urgent repairs to carry out on a property abroad or indeed any other urgent matter there other than the short list of specific reasons listed in the derogations? Seemingly not allowed. Joining a relative abroad? Seemingly not allowed unless the motif is impérieux. Moving to your residence in another country to be less exposed to covid19 risks ?Seemingly not allowed, etc...

San Gottardo

Excellent, exactly what I was looking for. I hadn't seen that update. Thanks

So true... big sigh. To be fair, there are questions that concern more people than entering/leaving the country with or without a test, such as which shops are allowed to open or not. But still, if the government wants us to follow the rules and we want to follow the rules, then at least they should make them clear and not rely on some journalists that don't apply the necessary diligence