What will be JOON's first [last] routes?
Jul 29, 2017, 3:05 pm
#16
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The COI service is already bad, so moving to JOON could be something positive.
Jul 29, 2017, 3:47 pm
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Aug 25, 2017, 6:39 am
#18
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- I doubt DXB will be Joon (DXB has P. Of course the presence of P doesn't mean necessarily high yield, but I don't think DXB will qualify for Joon).
- BKK : indeed 99,9% sure. But a coouple of months ago, AF announced that they would change the config to BKK, moving from a COI B77W to a config with more J seats ("loisirs config"). Of course they may change their plans
- SGN : no idea about the results of this long-established route, but probably not too high yield, so might be a candidate for Joon
- I think several COI routes, particularly HAV, SDQ/Punta Cana and SXM will move to Joon. For SXM, keep in mind that it is a 343 destination and one of the rare destination that have a real benefit being served by a quad and Joon will get the A343. For RUN/PTP/FDF, I think AF will need the capacity of the COI B77W, unless there is really a super overcapacity and a fare blood bath, which is likely with French Blue entering the market and very likely DY soon.
- USA : not sure that Joon will reach the US because not part of the transatlantic JV. Or Joon could be used to open new secondary seasonal destinations like MSY or MCO, FLL.
- BKK : indeed 99,9% sure. But a coouple of months ago, AF announced that they would change the config to BKK, moving from a COI B77W to a config with more J seats ("loisirs config"). Of course they may change their plans
- SGN : no idea about the results of this long-established route, but probably not too high yield, so might be a candidate for Joon
- I think several COI routes, particularly HAV, SDQ/Punta Cana and SXM will move to Joon. For SXM, keep in mind that it is a 343 destination and one of the rare destination that have a real benefit being served by a quad and Joon will get the A343. For RUN/PTP/FDF, I think AF will need the capacity of the COI B77W, unless there is really a super overcapacity and a fare blood bath, which is likely with French Blue entering the market and very likely DY soon.
- USA : not sure that Joon will reach the US because not part of the transatlantic JV. Or Joon could be used to open new secondary seasonal destinations like MSY or MCO, FLL.
Aug 25, 2017, 8:39 am
#19
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Is Osaka a place Millenials think about when asked about a destination that is either relevant for their occupation or hip enough to spend free time there? Haven't heard anyone yet saying "the hippest places I spend free time in are New York, Rio de Janeiro, Berlin and Osaka".
Aug 25, 2017, 9:18 am
#20
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Japan is a cool place for millenials. Osaka seems okay to me for a lower cost flight: I bet Tokyo is a profitable line already, and Osaka is close enough to Kyoto. Any anime fan will wish to visit the "Old Japan", and Kyoto is the symbol of that.
Although Osaka could please to millenials by itself, I bet JOON will need a well done advertisement campaign for the other destinations. Sure, the idea to fly to Bangkok and Peru seems cool to myself, but what is there to do over there?
Osaka -> Kyoto -> Cool place, let's check some more, make a plan, etc. Same for New York, Rio de Janeiro, and multiple European capitals that are close to us.
Kansai? Peru? Bangkok? Apart from being far away, this doesn't ring a bell.
Although Osaka could please to millenials by itself, I bet JOON will need a well done advertisement campaign for the other destinations. Sure, the idea to fly to Bangkok and Peru seems cool to myself, but what is there to do over there?
Osaka -> Kyoto -> Cool place, let's check some more, make a plan, etc. Same for New York, Rio de Janeiro, and multiple European capitals that are close to us.
Kansai? Peru? Bangkok? Apart from being far away, this doesn't ring a bell.
Aug 25, 2017, 1:15 pm
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I think KIX is a kind of special case. It is certainly not a destination praised by millenials 
, but KIX is an airport with very high landing fees, impairing the viability of many routes. Many airlines have dropped KIX over the last 10 years because of this. So maybe AF has KIX in mind for Joon, due to the slightly lower operating costs. But, if the case, I believe it's a big mistake. KIX is a business-heavy destination and AF has a very well-established brand in Japan and so it would be stupid to move their Japan flights to Joon IMHO...
, but KIX is an airport with very high landing fees, impairing the viability of many routes. Many airlines have dropped KIX over the last 10 years because of this. So maybe AF has KIX in mind for Joon, due to the slightly lower operating costs. But, if the case, I believe it's a big mistake. KIX is a business-heavy destination and AF has a very well-established brand in Japan and so it would be stupid to move their Japan flights to Joon IMHO...
Aug 25, 2017, 9:35 pm
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I think KIX is a kind of special case. It is certainly not a destination praised by millenials , but KIX is an airport with very high landing fees, impairing the viability of many routes. Many airlines have dropped KIX over the last 10 years because of this. So maybe AF has KIX in mind for Joon, due to the slightly lower operating costs. But, if the case, I believe it's a big mistake. KIX is a business-heavy destination and AF has a very well-established brand in Japan and so it would be stupid to move their Japan flights to Joon IMHO...
, but KIX is an airport with very high landing fees, impairing the viability of many routes. Many airlines have dropped KIX over the last 10 years because of this. So maybe AF has KIX in mind for Joon, due to the slightly lower operating costs. But, if the case, I believe it's a big mistake. KIX is a business-heavy destination and AF has a very well-established brand in Japan and so it would be stupid to move their Japan flights to Joon IMHO...It has reduced its operations to 10 weekly to HND, 7 weekly to NRT and 5 weekly to KIX.
KIX has (at least) three types of market attractions. First, a huge market from the populous and wealthy Kansai region. Second, a big business market centered around Osaka. Third, the attraction of Kyoto/Nara to French tourists (tour operators often sell entering in Tokyo and leaving from Osaka or vice versa).
It would be silly to get Joon to KIX. But this is just discussing hearsay speculation. I would asume that every single AF route has been considered for Joon. The end result is still very uncertain, and will in part depend on maximum utilization of a very few ac.
Aug 26, 2017, 2:03 pm
#23
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On the broader issue, I agree with brunos that this is just speculation, but Kyoto is indeed very cool and the whole area has a huge and wealthy population. The problem is that in recent years, traffic between Japan and Europe as well as between Europe and Japan has reduced significantly. The latter (less important) following the Fukushima disaster (though Kensai is far enough away and time has passed) but more significantly, Japanese people have shied away from European tourism in part because of their worries about terror attacks. JL has stopped their NRT-CDG flight in the winter, most airlines have reduced capacity drastically by cutting off KIX and moving NRT/HND to smaller plane (anyone remembers when NRT was 'the' place to fly one's A380?)
Aug 26, 2017, 2:17 pm
#24
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That would perfectly illustrate the ridicule of the Joon concept: choose destinations not because they are suited to Joon but because they are not to AF which wants to dump their failures on someone else without entirely leaving.
On the broader issue, I agree with brunos that this is just speculation, but Kyoto is indeed very cool and the whole area has a huge and wealthy population. The problem is that in recent years, traffic between Japan and Europe as well as between Europe and Japan has reduced significantly. The latter (less important) following the Fukushima disaster (though Kensai is far enough away and time has passed) but more significantly, Japanese people have shied away from European tourism in part because of their worries about terror attacks. JL has stopped their NRT-CDG flight in the winter, most airlines have reduced capacity drastically by cutting off KIX and moving NRT/HND to smaller plane (anyone remembers when NRT was 'the' place to fly one's A380?)
On the broader issue, I agree with brunos that this is just speculation, but Kyoto is indeed very cool and the whole area has a huge and wealthy population. The problem is that in recent years, traffic between Japan and Europe as well as between Europe and Japan has reduced significantly. The latter (less important) following the Fukushima disaster (though Kensai is far enough away and time has passed) but more significantly, Japanese people have shied away from European tourism in part because of their worries about terror attacks. JL has stopped their NRT-CDG flight in the winter, most airlines have reduced capacity drastically by cutting off KIX and moving NRT/HND to smaller plane (anyone remembers when NRT was 'the' place to fly one's A380?)
Aug 27, 2017, 11:58 am
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Very true. However traffic France-Japan is recovering significantly in 2017 vs 2016. But that hasn't prevent JL to suspend NRT-CDG for the winter season has you rightly pointed out. I think AF keeps NRT only because of the connection to NOU on SB. If SB could manage to have slots at HND, I can bet that AF will axe NRT immediately.
Sep 24, 2017, 7:30 pm
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Sep 24, 2017, 11:17 pm
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for the medium-haul, it confirms the rumors of the last months. For long-haul, well...that’s quite unexpected. I think that most Millenials have never heard about FOR, and they are so wealthy that they all go to SEZ for their vacations
I still don’t get it.
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Sep 25, 2017, 1:03 am
#30
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Thanks Bodory
for the medium-haul, it confirms the rumors of the last months. For long-haul, well...that’s quite unexpected. I think that most Millenials have never heard about FOR, and they are so wealthy that they all go to SEZ for their vacations
I still don’t get it.
for the medium-haul, it confirms the rumors of the last months. For long-haul, well...that’s quite unexpected. I think that most Millenials have never heard about FOR, and they are so wealthy that they all go to SEZ for their vacations
I still don’t get it.