Access to AF JFK lounge denied
Jan 28, 2016, 2:00 am
#1
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Access to AF JFK lounge denied
On 1/26 I was flying out of JFK with an AZ flight. I am Sky Team Elite Plus with Alitalia. I know AZ has a lounge in JFK but I have always used the AF lounge, given the better conditions of the lounge, food, wifi, etc.
The other day I was denied entrance by the AF lounge agent, saying that the rules have changed by 1/25 and I could only access the AZ lounge. I said that it was not written anywhere and as a ST E+ I could have accessed any ST lounge provided I was on an International flight the same day but she did not let me in.
I contacted AF customer service via social media and they gave me different answers:
1) When the member is Elite plus with a partner and such partner has a lounge, that lounge must be used (AZ in my case).
I said that it was not written anywhere on the website and that I must have the access to the lounge
2) They said that after checking with the station manager the lounge was overcrowded and when it is overcrowded they can deny access to anyone even though eligible
The last AF flight had just departed and the following one would have been in approx. 3 hrs so it was far from being crowded
At that point it had become a matter of principle, but, as my flight was about to board, I just replied back that it was against the rules and not written on their website and to double check. They said that they will let me know.
Now, I wonder, are the access rules changed or the lounge agent was just making her own rules?
The other day I was denied entrance by the AF lounge agent, saying that the rules have changed by 1/25 and I could only access the AZ lounge. I said that it was not written anywhere and as a ST E+ I could have accessed any ST lounge provided I was on an International flight the same day but she did not let me in.
I contacted AF customer service via social media and they gave me different answers:
1) When the member is Elite plus with a partner and such partner has a lounge, that lounge must be used (AZ in my case).
I said that it was not written anywhere on the website and that I must have the access to the lounge
2) They said that after checking with the station manager the lounge was overcrowded and when it is overcrowded they can deny access to anyone even though eligible
The last AF flight had just departed and the following one would have been in approx. 3 hrs so it was far from being crowded
At that point it had become a matter of principle, but, as my flight was about to board, I just replied back that it was against the rules and not written on their website and to double check. They said that they will let me know.
Now, I wonder, are the access rules changed or the lounge agent was just making her own rules?
Jan 28, 2016, 4:30 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I do not know such new rules.
However, I know some airlines can refuse people because of an overcrowded lounge.
The AF lounge is really busy at JFK nowadays.
However, I know some airlines can refuse people because of an overcrowded lounge.
The AF lounge is really busy at JFK nowadays.
Jan 28, 2016, 4:38 am
#3
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It was quite empty at that moment as the people had left to get their flight and it was too early for the following flight.
In any case the "lounge dragon" did not talk about the lounge being overcrowded, just that I can't go there no matter what. And to me it seems against the Skyteam rules
In any case the "lounge dragon" did not talk about the lounge being overcrowded, just that I can't go there no matter what. And to me it seems against the Skyteam rules
Jan 28, 2016, 4:55 am
#6
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
I saw people being turned away from the JFK lounge last week. They said it was overcrowded and I think they were Priority Pass members. I was let in as I was flying AF business and it was indeed very crowded. I think it is good that they keep their lounges exclusive and that if there is an alternative like the AZ lounge it makes sense to send people there. On the other hand it does not make sense when there is no alternative and they seriously should take appropriate measures: officially restrict access or increase lounge size.
Similarly on my last trip from CDG the lounge at 2L was full and SkyPriority boarding had a line as long as general boarding andwasalmost as slow.
Way to go there. I would not say that some passengers do not deserve "elite" treatment. I would rather say that AF need to better treat their elites from this point of view. Either they invest in physical facilities to make those wait times shorter and more bearable or they get better organized, for example they could text you instructions on flight day to optimize your experience: "lounge will be crowded today but if you drop luggage only 75 minutes before takeoff we will keep your seat and fast-track you to the gate" or "gate is crowded, your seat 22A is guaranteed but please show up in 15 minutes only" or "lounge full, attached is a $50 coupon for a meal or purchase at any terminal outlet".
21st century, technology can help proactively manage those issues.
Similarly on my last trip from CDG the lounge at 2L was full and SkyPriority boarding had a line as long as general boarding andwasalmost as slow.
Way to go there. I would not say that some passengers do not deserve "elite" treatment. I would rather say that AF need to better treat their elites from this point of view. Either they invest in physical facilities to make those wait times shorter and more bearable or they get better organized, for example they could text you instructions on flight day to optimize your experience: "lounge will be crowded today but if you drop luggage only 75 minutes before takeoff we will keep your seat and fast-track you to the gate" or "gate is crowded, your seat 22A is guaranteed but please show up in 15 minutes only" or "lounge full, attached is a $50 coupon for a meal or purchase at any terminal outlet".
21st century, technology can help proactively manage those issues.
Jan 28, 2016, 6:57 am
#9
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It could have been a weather related issue. However the way it was put it seems like a generic rule now in force - which goes against the Skyteam rules for lounges.
Come on, all of us have tried all the available lounges usable with our tickets/status in an airport to check them out and use the best ones. The AF in JFK is way superior than the AZ or KE ones
Come on, all of us have tried all the available lounges usable with our tickets/status in an airport to check them out and use the best ones. The AF in JFK is way superior than the AZ or KE ones
Jan 28, 2016, 8:40 am
#10
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Indeed but I have to say that it is normal to give priority to AF elites travelling on AF flights in an AF lounge.
Jan 28, 2016, 1:06 pm
#11
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This is really nothing new and indeed intended to avoid overcrowding. For info, it was even the case that for a long time, in SFO, you wouldn't be allowed to use the AF lounge if you were flying KL for the same reason.
JL closed down their lounge at JFK and their passengers now use the AF lounge instead. It has led to the AF lounge being far more crowded. Unfortunately, AZ have a rubbish lounge at JFK (in fact have rubbish lounges everywhere mostly) and it seems unfair that AZ should free-ride on AF hoping for them to provide the much better lounge and food for their own passengers to enjoy. You would have had no issue at all flying AF with an AZ FFP, probably been ok flying AZ with FB Gold or Platinum, but frankly, AZ flight with AZ FFP when there is an AZ lounge, it is sad to say but the response is not entirely illogical.
JL closed down their lounge at JFK and their passengers now use the AF lounge instead. It has led to the AF lounge being far more crowded. Unfortunately, AZ have a rubbish lounge at JFK (in fact have rubbish lounges everywhere mostly) and it seems unfair that AZ should free-ride on AF hoping for them to provide the much better lounge and food for their own passengers to enjoy. You would have had no issue at all flying AF with an AZ FFP, probably been ok flying AZ with FB Gold or Platinum, but frankly, AZ flight with AZ FFP when there is an AZ lounge, it is sad to say but the response is not entirely illogical.
Jan 29, 2016, 12:59 am
#12
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However, I have emailed AF and ST and we'll see what is the official answer
Jan 29, 2016, 1:47 am
#13
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I fully side with Orbitmic.
There is a tiny number of lounge hoppers (mostly infrequent travelers, others don't bother) and they are heavily represented on forums and blogs like FT.
I find it wrong to interpret the loose statements on FB website as stating that an elite+ of any program traveling is guaranteed access to any and all ST lounges at all airports. The text reads "SkyTeam Elite Plus members, regardless of their travel class, are allowed access to a SkyTeam lounge at a particular airport if traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline."
You have access to a lounge (AZ) so the criteria are met. At several airports, it is common that elite+ traveling in Y are directed to ONE of the lounges for various reasons (cost, size, crowding at specific times, etc...).
The situation is a bit different when there is a specific common ST lounge like at London, Hong Kong, Istanbul or Sydney.
There is a tiny number of lounge hoppers (mostly infrequent travelers, others don't bother) and they are heavily represented on forums and blogs like FT.
I find it wrong to interpret the loose statements on FB website as stating that an elite+ of any program traveling is guaranteed access to any and all ST lounges at all airports. The text reads "SkyTeam Elite Plus members, regardless of their travel class, are allowed access to a SkyTeam lounge at a particular airport if traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline."
You have access to a lounge (AZ) so the criteria are met. At several airports, it is common that elite+ traveling in Y are directed to ONE of the lounges for various reasons (cost, size, crowding at specific times, etc...).
The situation is a bit different when there is a specific common ST lounge like at London, Hong Kong, Istanbul or Sydney.
Jan 29, 2016, 2:45 am
#14
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I understand and it's nice to get many feedbacks.
Not an infrequent traveller here, just looking to stay comfortable during long layovers, work properly and comfortably, drink/eat something decent (for an uninterrupted sleep on the plane), hence the look for something better where available.
That said, the AZ lounge was OK as usual, with loud tv and loud attendees but it worked ok.
To respond to Bruno's above, the Air France website states:
Not an infrequent traveller here, just looking to stay comfortable during long layovers, work properly and comfortably, drink/eat something decent (for an uninterrupted sleep on the plane), hence the look for something better where available.
That said, the AZ lounge was OK as usual, with loud tv and loud attendees but it worked ok.
To respond to Bruno's above, the Air France website states:
You and a guest of your choice can take advantage of free entry to the 530 Air France and SkyTeam lounges. You can access these lounges before your flight's departure when you travel:
on an AIR FRANCE, KLM, or SkyTeam international flight,
on an Air France flight within Paris that departs from Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Paris-Orly West and airports in certain select cities,
on a SkyTeam flight within one country that connects to a SkyTeam international flight on the same day.
on an AIR FRANCE, KLM, or SkyTeam international flight,
on an Air France flight within Paris that departs from Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Paris-Orly West and airports in certain select cities,
on a SkyTeam flight within one country that connects to a SkyTeam international flight on the same day.
Last edited by ale982; Jan 29, 2016 at 2:57 am
Jan 29, 2016, 3:16 am
#15
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The Skyteam Flying Blue website states:
" Lounge Access Policy
All international First and Business Class passengers traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline have access to our exclusive lounge facilities. Simply present your same-day (First or Business Class) ticket for an international SkyTeam airline flight.
SkyTeam Elite Plus members, regardless of their travel class, are allowed access to a SkyTeam lounge at a particular airport if traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline. Simply present your same-day ticket for an international SkyTeam airline flight and a valid Elite Plus membership card."
You are not traveling in J, so that last paragraph applies to your case. Of importance is the term "a lounge" (not "any" lounge). It does not state all the lounges of the ST airlines at the particular airport.
You refer to the Air France website, but you are NOT a FB member nor traveling on an AF flight, so that does not apply to you. You should refer to the AZ website and see what they say for their members.
Many lounges at outstations have capacity restrictions and as long as you are given access to a ST lounge (AZ in your case), ST T&Cs are respected. I understand that you would like to get into the "best" lounge but restrictions are sometimes binding at outstations. As you travel a lot, I am surprised that you have never been hit before by such restrictions.
" Lounge Access Policy
All international First and Business Class passengers traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline have access to our exclusive lounge facilities. Simply present your same-day (First or Business Class) ticket for an international SkyTeam airline flight.
SkyTeam Elite Plus members, regardless of their travel class, are allowed access to a SkyTeam lounge at a particular airport if traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline. Simply present your same-day ticket for an international SkyTeam airline flight and a valid Elite Plus membership card."
You are not traveling in J, so that last paragraph applies to your case. Of importance is the term "a lounge" (not "any" lounge). It does not state all the lounges of the ST airlines at the particular airport.
You refer to the Air France website, but you are NOT a FB member nor traveling on an AF flight, so that does not apply to you. You should refer to the AZ website and see what they say for their members.
Many lounges at outstations have capacity restrictions and as long as you are given access to a ST lounge (AZ in your case), ST T&Cs are respected. I understand that you would like to get into the "best" lounge but restrictions are sometimes binding at outstations. As you travel a lot, I am surprised that you have never been hit before by such restrictions.