frequentglobetrotter

Hello All,

May I ask if we know when AF plan to implement the new business class cabins on the HND to CDG route which is on a 777-200?

Thanks!

orbitmic

As I posted on the "Wow sale" thread, it certainly shows every day in December and in fact it seems to be from the start of the winter season (very end of October). Someone else confirmed it still showed in March too.

From the original thread on the new seats, someone had reported that AF was going to be put plane with the new seats to NRT, but right now, it looks like the old seat is still on the NRT flights while the new one will be put on HND. Maybe AF changed their minds, or perhaps it was a misinterpretation and it was actually written in the AF documentation that the new seat would be put on "Tokyo" and NRT was wrongly assumed while it was always meant to be HND, not sure.

orbitmic

In fact, I just found a new list on a thread on flight-report.com listing the destinations with the new seat:

2014: JFK, HND, SIN-CGK, PVG, and IAH
then early 2015: GRU, DXB, DLA

mario

I booked HND-CDG for April next year and it is showing as 2-3-2 config in J. Is AF swapping back to old-J on this route?

orbitmic

It's possible. They may also not have loaded the correct seat maps for the summer season yet, at least I hope so for you.

Goldorak

For HND, does anybody know if the new J seat is available on the 2 daily flights on only one one (and if the case, which one). I'm thinking about the Christmas period
Thanks

orbitmic

Is there a second flight on AF metal? Is it every day of the week? Asking as there is definitely only one on the day when I fly (AF279) which has the new seats, not sure about any other.

brunos

Hi Orbitmic, you are definitely an AF optimist. As you know, one aircraft cannot do a daily rotation to Asia given the flight duration. It might go to NY between two rotations. So it can only assume half a daily rotation at most (precluding maintenance). I wish that you get lucky and that AF will be able to stick to its announced schedule on the days you are flying. But if you fly in 2015, then there will be more frames retrofitted (assuming that the process goes without glitches) and more frames available.

Goldorak

Yes there are 2 daily (or almost daily) flights to HND on AF metal.
Overall the AF TYO service for this winter is :
- NRT : one daily flight on AF metal (AF276 leaving CDG at 13:40 / return AF275 day flight from NRT) + one daily JL code share (leaving CDG at 22:20)
- HND : one daily AF274/AF293 (departing around 23:30 from CDG and departing from HND at 00:30 am and arriving CDG around 5:00 am same day) and a 5 or 6 weekly AF272/AF279 (leaving CDG around 16:00, returning from HND as a day flight). No more JL code-share to HND.

And regarding my original question (is the new J seat available on one of the HND flights or both), I called Le Club and I'm pleased to inform you that both flights have the new J seat (at least in december around Christmas/New year) ^

brunos

Interesting that they change the schedule of AF272 in the october winter schedule. It is currently departing at 10:50 arriving at 06:00. AF will depart at 16:10 arriving at !2:10. I find the old schedule much more convenient for business pax.

Goldorak

In a way, yes but personally I hate those flights to Asia departing Europe at mid-day. It is impossible to sleep at that time and you are supposed to sleep because you arrive early morning the next day. But the new AF TYO schedule gives a large choice to the customers (from CDG : mid-day departure to NRT and then middle afternoon and late night to HND).

orbitmic

+1. Much prefer a later departure as those early ones are a killer for me (impossible to sleep and exhausted as arriving in the morning when you "shouldn't" sleep for another 13 or 14 hours!

brunos

I agree with Goldorak that it is good that AF offers a wide schedule for all tastes between NRT and HND. Although arriving early morning in NRT is a bad idea with the heavy morning traffic into Tokyo (must use limousine bus), while HND offers the great advantage of subway.

Many business men/women have a hectic schedule. I often do Asia-Europe-Asia for just a couple of days and know many friends who do the reverse. Jet lag is an unavoidable problem; it is hard to get to sleep (in plane of hotel) when coming from Europe to Asia, unless you take some sleeping pill, and the day's work is tough. But that is not specific to the flight. I do a trip with over six hours jetlag around once every six weeks (US or Europe), so I am quite aware of the problem.
Returning from Asia is easy as you have a late evening departure arriving early morning, no work lost.

Of course, quite a few pax are on the Asian time zone (AF J tends to have a lot of French business pax based in HK) and we should also understand why they like a morning arrival in Asia.

The advantage of a late-evening departure from Europe is that you have a full day of work before departing but none when arriving. The advantage of a morning/noon departure from Europe is that you land early morning and have a full day of work in Asia. You can get a shower and go to work. i dislike a 16:00 departure because it disturbs your work both on departure day and arrival day.

This all depends on tastes and whether you have leisure time.

orbitmic

Fully agree with your analysis, including the fact that mid-afternoon is the most illogical of all in some sense (and indeed, not really an option on CDG-HND with one morning departure with early morning arrival, and one evening departure with late afternoon arrival). As I mentioned, I personally really dislike the morning departure on Europe-Asia flights, but I fully agree with you that it corresponds to the needs of some people.

Schwann

Interesting discussion. From a completely different perspective (that of a leisure traveller), the 1600 CDG-HND departure suits me well. It means a nice departure time from LHR and arrive at a civilised time in Japan.

Travelling in J is a rare treat for me, so sleeping is not a requisite until I start to feel tired! And as it's paid for out of my own pocket I want to be getting my monies worth product wise!