Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air France, KLM, and Other Partners | Flying Blue > Air France Frequence Plus
Reload this Page >

AF La Premiere passengers will be able to make their connection with business jets

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

AF La Premiere passengers will be able to make their connection with business jets

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 5, 2014, 4:01 pm
  #1  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: PARIS (France)
Programs: AF/KLM Club 2000 | InterContinental Diamond RA |AMEX Plat | Visa Infinite |Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 10,963
AF La Premiere passengers will be able to make their connection with business jets

The young company Wijet was chosen by Air France to transport in business jet passengers of first class connecting at Roissy-CDG, in addition to the long-haul flight.

Air France has signed a commercial agreement with Wijet, whose small business jets will pick up first class passengers who request it.


After the business class, Air France will unveil in May its new first class. Alexandre de Juniac, CEO of Air France-KLM group, ensures that it will be "the best".

If the executive of the company don't want to say anything of its future development, we already know that one of the major novelties will be the possibility for the first class passengers to fly from/to Roissy-CDG airport with business jets.

Air France has indeed passed a trade agreement with the young French company Wijet, whose small business jets will pick up first passengers who request it, on the European airport of their choice. Arrived at Roissy, a limousine will come looking for these VIP passengers at the foot of the aircraft to get them at the first class lounge, or directly to the Wijet aircraft.

This fare conditions are not yet known, and this new VIP service will not start before June.

Launched in 2009, Wijet however has built its business reputation on rates relatively low, through the use of small business jets like Cessna Mustang with 4 seats, enabling it to display a flight from 2,200 euros an hour for four passengers. Not what might scare passengers who commonly pay more than EUR 10,000 for a flight in first class. Other companies like Lufthansa have also successfully experienced this option.

As for the business class, Air France hopes to upgrade its first class to one of the best. It plans to invest EUR 50 million for the new seats - number of a hundred only - entrusted to B/E Aerospace.

The question of removing the first class, which has already disappeared from many destinations, yet arose among Air France, due to its lack of profitability. "I decided that we will keep a first class, both for marketing reasons, but also because there is a market," said Alexandre de Juniac, CEO of Air France-KLM. "It pulls the quality of service up by encouraging staff to surpass themselves"

Source: Les Echos (in French)

Last edited by nicolas75; Feb 6, 2014 at 12:41 am
nicolas75 is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 12:24 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,928
Excellent. I hope it will be a success.
And it will be fun to see a few private jets at CDG, which is something we never see.
May be those regional jets will be parked at 2G But with the limo transfer, one can survive
Goldorak is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 2:07 am
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,539
Originally Posted by Goldorak
Excellent. I hope it will be a success.
And it will be fun to see a few private jets at CDG, which is something we never see.
May be those regional jets will be parked at 2G But with the limo transfer, one can survive
Well the devil is in the detail... I suspect af will charge the wijet fee plus an extra cut, and CDg air traffic is already bad at peak connection times and will get even worse. Also you dont make a connecting f pax miss their plane so plebes like us flying y, w, or j will probably experience further delays to wait for the super important people wanting to arrive at the last minute except that the last minute was 35 minutes ago!! Oh and af being af, expect the unions to fight for some entitlement to the new wijet services and for you and me to foot the bill. So in my view it will definitely be a win-lose game, excellent for some and disastrous for (more) others...

To me, the ethos of private jet flying and scheduled commercial air flying are almost opposite. The former is about complete flexibility and tailor designing while the latter - even in luxury cabins - is about predictability and rigour. Both might be good in their own rights, but to cut a long story short, marrying caviar and chocolate is certainly not guaranteed to produce an exponentially good dish.

Last edited by orbitmic; Feb 6, 2014 at 3:35 am
orbitmic is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 2:48 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,741
Why can't these passengers just take their private jet directly to wherever it is they want to go - refuelling en route as necessary - thereby cutting out the need to connect at CDG and to travel with the plebs on a scheduled flight, even if it is La Première???
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 5:43 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: FRA
Programs: FB Plat & DL KM, Le Club Plat, GHA Plat, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 1,591
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Why can't these passengers just take their private jet directly to wherever it is they want to go - refuelling en route as necessary - thereby cutting out the need to connect at CDG and to travel with the plebs on a scheduled flight, even if it is La Première???
Simply put, if you own your private Boeing, then transferring to La Premiere is out of question. But, if you can 'afford' only a small Cessna, then transferring makes sense.
ajs123 is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 6:25 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,741
But there is so much more in between your Cessna and the Boeing of your example...
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 6:39 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,557
That is another grand idea that will vastly improve AF profits.
brunos is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 7:30 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Why can't these passengers just take their private jet directly to wherever it is they want to go - refuelling en route as necessary - thereby cutting out the need to connect at CDG and to travel with the plebs on a scheduled flight, even if it is La Première???
Because they'd have to rent that private jet for a few days including resting time of the crew. Landings for refuelling asside, that would cost them a MASSIVE deal more than renting a plane for 3 hours for a 1 hour hop to CDG and than onwards in F on AF...

Originally Posted by irishguy28
But there is so much more in between your Cessna and the Boeing of your example...
To my knowledge no business jets exist that can do, say, CDG-LAX or CDG-HKG without refuelling more than once. And anyone who can afford/rent a plane that can do it non-stop would never use a commercial airline in any case, not even the ones with the best 1st class product. I think that AF is very clearly targetting a (small) and viable market segment here.

Last edited by Zembla; Feb 6, 2014 at 7:38 am
Zembla is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 7:46 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Why can't these passengers just take their private jet directly to wherever it is they want to go - refuelling en route as necessary - thereby cutting out the need to connect at CDG and to travel with the plebs on a scheduled flight, even if it is La Première???
Because, for long haul, they'd have to rent that private jet for a few days in a row including resting time of the crew. Landings for refuelling asside (take off's and landings not only add considerably to the travel time, but also to the bill). All that would cost them a MASSIVE deal more than renting a small business jet for a few hours for a short hop to CDG plus onwards in F on AF...

Originally Posted by irishguy28
But there is so much more in between your Cessna and the Boeing of your example...
Yes, but would the rental cost/hour be the same for a plane that can do long haul non-stop? And also in this case, you may add the resting time of the crew the bill, plus optionally a return empty. Planes that can do it non-stop, cost a LOT more than the small short-haul business jet traffic that is targeted by AF. And anyone who can afford that, would never use a commercial airline in the first place, not even the ones with the best 1st class product.

I think that AF is very clearly targetting a small and viable market segment here.
Zembla is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 9:48 am
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,584
Its not much of a further flying time to the FCT is it?
hugolover is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 10:22 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,741
I remain unconvinced, and think that other airlines have a better grasp of this small but viable market...

Lufthansa
Emirates Airline
Qatar Airways

Though it does seem largely a copy of Etihad's "Premium Connect" service - and perhaps that's where the idea came from

http://www.etihad.com/en-ie/experien...emium-connect/

And Singapore Airlines offer a similar service in the US

Singapore Airlines Jetsuite
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 10:30 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Glaschu
Programs: FB Platinum for Life; BAEC Gold Guest List; Accor Gold.
Posts: 2,549
This would be very good for some! For example, take the case of a wealthy, New York-based AF aficionado who wishes to visit his 'roots' on the Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond ...

Current arrangements (for Easter 2014) are:
AF 007, JFK-CDG F (~£5,000 r/t), then CDG-AMS and AMS-GLA (I guess putting an F passenger on the Flybe CDG-(CWL)-GLA flight would be unthinkable), then a taxi into the city and a Loch Lomond Airways flight from the River Clyde in Glasgow up to Oban (scheduled) or to, say, Ardlui, on the shores of the Loch itself (private charter).
But, after being 'met and greeted' at CDG with the AF limousine service and La Premiere lounge, a Cessna to Oban/Ardlui would be a far, far better experience!

-- Henry

PS: I once did JFK-EDI on an F award; after the TATL (A388) and CDG "La Premiere" experience, I have to admit that the CDG-EDI flight on a CityJet RJ-85 was rather sobering! (Even despite the personal escort from the Lounge to the aircraft steps.)
Henry III is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 2:32 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Programs: KLM/AF Platinum for life, IHG Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,026
To my knowledge no business jets exist that can do, say, CDG-LAX or CDG-HKG without refuelling more than once. And anyone who can afford/rent a plane that can do it non-stop would never use a commercial airline in any case, not even the ones with the best 1st class product. I think that AF is very clearly targetting a (small) and viable market segment here.[/QUOTE]

CDG-LAX there are at least 5 Biz jets [excluding Boeing/Airbus] currently in production that can do it depending on winds. Eastbound is much easier. CDG-HKG is also possible for 3 of them, but not westbound.

These aircraft cost around €10.000/hr for such flights though, whereas a CeSsna Mustang can connect to most of Europe at less than €2.500/hr. Unlike airline travel, these prices do not change depending on number of passengers.
bankops is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 3:17 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Originally Posted by Henry III
But, after being 'met and greeted' at CDG with the AF limousine service and La Premiere lounge, a Cessna to Oban/Ardlui would be a far, far better experience!
What about grabbing a dirty smelly taxi into Paris...no wait worse...the RER! I've done both after F flights (I didn't want to be stuck in traffic for 2 hours in rush hour)

Originally Posted by bankops
T

These aircraft cost around €10.000/hr for such flights though, whereas a CeSsna Mustang can connect to most of Europe at less than €2.500/hr. Unlike airline travel, these prices do not change depending on number of passengers.
Indeed, you highlighted my actual point. To do the AF connection trick with a Cessna jet would cost no more than, say 15000, whilst doing the whole thing in a private jet that can do it non-stop would cost at least 10 times that much.

Last edited by Zembla; Feb 7, 2014 at 2:12 am Reason: Seems I omitted something
Zembla is offline  
Old Feb 6, 2014, 6:21 pm
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: PARIS (France)
Programs: AF/KLM Club 2000 | InterContinental Diamond RA |AMEX Plat | Visa Infinite |Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 10,963
The target are customers who do not live/work in the Paris area and want to catch a long haul flight with the flexibilty to/from Paris they cannot have with traditional networks (medium size towns with poor TGV/airlines connection, timetables of major airlines not compatible with customers' cconstraints). 1,200 airports are served by Wijet.

This target is much more important people may think. Furthermore, it will not cannibalise AF short-medium haul network, and typically may add revenues to the P segment.

At Wijet, about 50% of users are newcomers in the business jet segment (businessmen who need to have a return flight in the same day, couples en route for a weekend to Venice, etc.).
nicolas75 is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.