MSPeconomist

Last week on an AF flight (exCDG) within Europe I noticed something that I've never observed on an airplane. There seemed to be an intermediate class of service on an aircraft that shouldn't have had premium economy. IIRC this was an A320 (or similar, I can check if it matters).

There were four rows (maybe three on one side) in front of the moveable curtain. In the first three rows, the middle seat had the "space for business class" seat cover and tables were installed. I was in 3C but moved into 3A for the view when the door closed and my row was empty.

However, row 4 (which was clearly in front of the curtain) was packed, with every seat occupied. Two on the other side of the aisle seemed to be pilots, possibly AF but I'm not sure. The others were working age adults and didn't obviously seem to be airline employees (no uniforms, name tags, or crew luggage tags that I noticed), but they easily could have been nonrevs or friends and family. They were dressed causally rather than for business. People in row 4 received the same meal as was served in business class.

Except for the seat next to me, the plane appeared to be fairly full, although I didn't hear any announcements that it was oversold nor was there any problem finding space for everyone's carry on bags. I would guess that there were some scattered empty seats in coach.

I'm curious about this special zone defined by the row in front of the curtain. Other than the off duty (deadheading?) pilots, would these passengers be high tier FB FFers on AF? Did I observe special treatment for nonrevs? Or were these regular coach passengers who received semi-upgrades (food but not space)? Is this the way AF handles OPUPs to get everyone on the plane? At first, I assumed that I was simply seeing a mispositioned curtain since the inbound flight was late, but the serving of business class meals was surprising, especially since more meals were given out than the number corrseponding to every aisle and window seat in from of the curtain being occupied, so I don't think this was an unplanned last-minute innovation to get the flight out and accommodate all passengers.

Can anyone here explain? Is this phenomenon common on AF?

irishguy28

Sounds like Air France's "Premium Eco Europe" A/S/J/W fares (which KLM mimic only on the CDG-AMS route to maintain consistency with AF's offering).


http://www.airfrance.ie/IE/en/common...e_aeroport.htm



FT threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...il-2010-a.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...pressions.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...m-economy.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...m-economy.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...emium-eco.html

orbitmic

Err... that class of travel has existed under different names for well over 10 years (Tempo Challenge, Premium Economy). Since 2010, the curtain has been between it and economy.

MSPeconomist

Thanks. The position of the curtain confused me.

orbitmic

That was their "big revolution" They seemed to think that this would make Premium Economy more attractive than before (there was already a curtain between eco and premium eco but then there was another between premium eco and business! They must think their passengers are remarkably shallow!

irishguy28

They could install a shower curtain above every seat, allowing each passenger the opportunity to create their own personal, private sanctuary. They could call this new evolution "Suite Eco Challenge Plus Tempo - Prémium".

San Gottardo

brunos

Apologies for a question from someone who lives afar, seldom uses AF shorthaul flights (I know they weirdly prefer to call them mediumhaul) and cannot follow the constant "enhancements" to their services.
On European flights (not domestic, only mainline), do we now have four types of fares and associated services: "business" class with middle seat empty and enhanced food service, "premium economy" with no middle seat empty but "enhanced" food, "classic" economy with limited food but access to better seats and luggage, and "Mini" economy with lesser seats and no luggage?
AM I right?

JOUY31

Lesser seats: the seats are the same, in the physical sense. But you can't change the seat that has been pre-allocated to you by the system until you reach the airport, while for Classic fares, you can change it (or select it if one has not been pre-allocated) at OLCI, 30 hours before the flight.

And the limited food you mention is the same for Classic and MiNi fares.

orbitmic

Indeed. You could also think of it as a Flying Blue mileage sliding scale!

Business: 250%
Premium Economy: 200%
Classic: 25-100%
MiNi: 0%

Worth noting that on non-full flights, the difference between Business and Premium Economy is truly marginal to inexistent.

olivedel

For medium-haul non-domestic flights, Business, Premium Economy and Economy are branded cabins at Air France (even though there is only two "soft cabins" : Business /sign-placard/ Premium Economy /curtain/ Economy).
Classic and MiNi are fare types with assigned seats in the Economy cabin. When the passenger gets to clear security, there is no difference between the service offered to a Classic fare ticket owner and the service offered to a Mini fare ticket owner.
The difference was during check-in (bags + seat assignments at OLCI).

orbitmic

Indeed - single class for classic and MiNi, although the difference can continue till aircraft is boarded as AF is finally enforcing the hand luggage limits in many instances and if a MiNi passenger has managed to get all the way to the plane with a bag too big/too heavy, they are finally made to check it in at the gate and pay.

olivedel

You are right, although that would be the case for a Classic passenger that has used its whole allowance already.

San Gottardo

Then you have the special case of the flights operated by HOP.

There Business class has a 2-2 layout as well, no free middle seat. But often it's only one row that is labelled Business, so if there are 3 other people - which is not that unlikely - you are stuffed. I usually ask at CKI whether there is a seat without neighbour somewhere in Eco and then I typically end up in the second-to-last row, but with some horizontal space. Some pretty interesting discussions with FAs who complain about me leaving my hand luggage in the baggage rack above row 1 and then sit the back (they think that I am an Y passenger taking J class luggage space - but rather than police it in the beginning of the flight where it would make sense they only realize when I get off, arriving from the back and then taking out my hand luggage from the bin overhead row 1). I then show them my J boarding pass and they cannot understand why someone would forego the fantastic service of Business Class and sit in the back voluntarily, nor do they understand my explanation that this makes AF one of the few companies where it is more comfy to sit in Y than in J.

On all these planes (mainline and HOP) the issue with the combined Business and Premium Y cabin is that people re-seat themselves once doors are closed. On flights which aren't too full you'll get a "Business seat" without neighbour, and even the guy staying behind in his Premium Y seat gets a Buiness Class experience because his neighbour has moved. Win-Win