Air France flight, diverted from BEY to AMM[, has landed at LCA]
Aug 19, 2012, 3:39 pm
#76
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Sorry, I think my A320 example was put unclearly. I should have said 'even an A320 has a flight range...'. In short, I wholeheartedly agree with San Gottardo's and bruno's conclusion that there must have been some gross miscalculation of fuel supply. That a plane capable of flying CDG-GIG is forced to land into DAM after a mere CDG-BEY is simply not on. I also DO think that there was an actual risk that once in DAM the plane and passengers might (unlikely but possible) have been in genuine danger.
PS: The fact that AF managed to raise about €17,000 in cash after a couple of rows amazes the guy (me) who typically finds himself with a mere €2 in his pocket!
I thought only Russian millionaires tended to walk about with handfuls of banknotes in their wallet but it seems that Lebanese millionaires (or perhaps all millionaires 
) do too!
PS: The fact that AF managed to raise about €17,000 in cash after a couple of rows amazes the guy (me) who typically finds himself with a mere €2 in his pocket!
I thought only Russian millionaires tended to walk about with handfuls of banknotes in their wallet but it seems that Lebanese millionaires (or perhaps all millionaires ) do too!
Aug 19, 2012, 4:40 pm
#77
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These numbers are for a direct line "as the crow flies" but do not at all correspond to the distance the plane has to travel. Whereas BEY-LCA can be flown more or less directly, the route to Damascus goes over the Mediterranean on a Northern heading along the Lebanese and Syrian coast to Latakia, then turning right over Syria proper, South to Damascus, and - if relevant - onto Amman. So Amman and Damascus are much further than Larnaca, and further than the numbers you quote may make believe.
I have a hunch that one concern of Air France's operating center back in Paris was that the crew would not be able to reach its crew hotel which is several kilometers from the airport.
[*]The story with landing in the sea was a little unclear. I thought until today that it was complete bogus. But indeed what had really happened that some passengers in the bulkhead seats (the one I spoke to was sitting in the second Affaires cabin's first row) were asked "to hold back all passengers until the slides were fully deployed". What I did not really get from their explanations was where this happened and why. Was it really in preparation for a landing on water? Or for a possible "crash landing" because of not enough fuel? Did the crew really consider it? The pax couldn't tell
Aug 20, 2012, 3:56 am
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Aug 20, 2012, 5:04 am
#80
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Indeed they had that announcement. One of the pax I spoke to mentioned it because he found it "funny they should say that" (he obviously didn't know about that vein standard procedure during refuelling)
Aug 20, 2012, 5:49 am
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Standard procedure on aerodromes where the outside temperature is very high (Las Vegas and airports in the Persian Gulf are well-known ones). And apparently also when a plane lands in a possibly hostile place.
Indeed they had that announcement. One of the pax I spoke to mentioned it because he found it "funny they should say that" (he obviously didn't know about that vein standard procedure during refuelling)
Indeed they had that announcement. One of the pax I spoke to mentioned it because he found it "funny they should say that" (he obviously didn't know about that vein standard procedure during refuelling)
Whatever the rules, I still remember that soldiers armed with machine guns used to walk in the plane during Lagos stopovers many years ago. And F pax were worried that their seats be taken by VIPs boarding in Nigeria. No way you ncould argue with a machine gun in your stomach.
Aug 20, 2012, 7:30 am
#82
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Whatever the rules, I still remember that soldiers armed with machine guns used to walk in the plane during Lagos stopovers many years ago. And F pax were worried that their seats be taken by VIPs boarding in Nigeria. No way you ncould argue with a machine gun in your stomach.
Aug 20, 2012, 10:48 am
#83
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Source: Le Nouvel Observateur
Some additional details from Air France:
Originally Posted by Le Nouvel Observateur
En fait, l'enchaînement des événements n'a pas laissé le choix au commandant de bord, a indiqué la compagnie, rappelant qu'elle était "en contact permanent avec la cellule de crise du ministère des Affaires étrangères tout au long du vol".
Alors que l'A330 d'Air France approchait de Beyrouth, la situation s'est rapidement détériorée. La route de l'aéroport, sur laquelle des milliers d'enlèvements ont eu lieu pendant la guerre civile (1975-1990) était coupée par des hommes en armes.
Air France a donc décidé de dérouter l'appareil sur Amman, en traversant l'espace aérien syrien. Amman est l'aérodrome de dégagement prévu lorsque Beyrouth n'est pas disponible.
La capitale jordanienne est une destination régulière d'Air France, qui y dispose d'une équipe en permanence. En revanche, elle ne dessert pas Larnaca, a souligné le directeur de permanence à Air France, Pierre Caussade.
Mais l'équipage n'a pas obtenu du contrôleur aérien syrien la trajectoire qu'il escomptait. "Le contrôleur lui a même demandé de changer de cap à 270°, au lieu de faire simplement un virage à 90°... L'équipage s'est retrouvé en situation d'urgence, avec assez de carburant pour se poser à Damas. On n'en avait plus assez pour aller à Amman". A ce moment là, il n'en avait pas non plus assez pour rallier Larnaca.
Alors que l'A330 d'Air France approchait de Beyrouth, la situation s'est rapidement détériorée. La route de l'aéroport, sur laquelle des milliers d'enlèvements ont eu lieu pendant la guerre civile (1975-1990) était coupée par des hommes en armes.
Air France a donc décidé de dérouter l'appareil sur Amman, en traversant l'espace aérien syrien. Amman est l'aérodrome de dégagement prévu lorsque Beyrouth n'est pas disponible.
La capitale jordanienne est une destination régulière d'Air France, qui y dispose d'une équipe en permanence. En revanche, elle ne dessert pas Larnaca, a souligné le directeur de permanence à Air France, Pierre Caussade.
Mais l'équipage n'a pas obtenu du contrôleur aérien syrien la trajectoire qu'il escomptait. "Le contrôleur lui a même demandé de changer de cap à 270°, au lieu de faire simplement un virage à 90°... L'équipage s'est retrouvé en situation d'urgence, avec assez de carburant pour se poser à Damas. On n'en avait plus assez pour aller à Amman". A ce moment là, il n'en avait pas non plus assez pour rallier Larnaca.
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Last edited by JOUY31; Aug 20, 2012 at 10:54 am
Aug 20, 2012, 10:55 am
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Aug 20, 2012, 12:18 pm
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Aug 20, 2012, 12:40 pm
#86
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An unexpected bonus for several airport officials, especially the ATC officer on duty, happiness for their families in a country crippled by economic sanctions, and a nice commission for the honorable correspondant who will remain unnamed ...
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What a cute, effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What a cute, effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
Last edited by JOUY31; Aug 21, 2012 at 8:35 am
Aug 20, 2012, 1:50 pm
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Must have been very upsetting if the French Ambassador to Lebanon arrived after the Foreign Affairs Minister. But he visited Damascus which Fabius has not done
The bureaucrats in Paris ("cellule de crise") must have gotten quite agitated.
The bureaucrats in Paris ("cellule de crise") must have gotten quite agitated.
Aug 21, 2012, 5:04 am
#88
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An unexpected bonus for several airport officials, especially the ATC officer on duty, happiness for their families in a country crippled by economic sanctions, and a nice commission for the honorable correspondant who will remain unnamed ...
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What an effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What an effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
So it will be 5000 for the fuel, 7000 for the 'taxe anti-delocalisation' and 12000 administrative charge to cover the risk of depression of our immigration agents for denying them the right to check if the passengers have got a valid 'petrol-transit' visa... We accept all major currencies but the fees do not include tips and tolls...
Aug 21, 2012, 11:38 am
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An unexpected bonus for several airport officials, especially the ATC officer on duty, happiness for their families in a country crippled by economic sanctions, and a nice commission for the honorable correspondant who will remain unnamed ...
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What a cute, effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What a cute, effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
If it's true, you can't blame Syrian ATC not to grant the most direct route, and it makes the flight situation more understandable (how could they be out of fuel 15-20 minutes after their scheduled landing time in BEY? We're not speaking of Ryan Air here... If they just wanting to refuel before sending a mayday call, I'd understand that better).
Aug 21, 2012, 3:05 pm
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An unexpected bonus for several airport officials, especially the ATC officer on duty, happiness for their families in a country crippled by economic sanctions, and a nice commission for the honorable correspondant who will remain unnamed ...
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What a cute, effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
It looks like the flight crew were, both literally and figuratively, taken for a ride by Syrian ATC. What a cute, effective, damascene way of acquiring business!
If it's true, you can't blame Syrian ATC not to grant the most direct route, and it makes the flight situation more understandable (how could they be out of fuel 15-20 minutes after their scheduled landing time in BEY? We're not speaking of Ryan Air here... If they just wanting to refuel before sending a mayday call, I'd understand that better).