chrissxb

hello,

just to inform you that we'll meet again at CDG with AF/FB management.
we? that is: gajan, orbitmic, jouy31 and chrissxb.
when? Apr27
where? AF HQ at CDG.

if you have anything special you want us to ask AF/FB - we'll try to do our very best to forward your question to AF and will post all answers here.

ajs123

I would like to know whether they will make any official statement on the new benefit on DL - upgrade eligibility on domestic DL flights. So far it's not officially listed as a benefit.

bodory

Thanks to you for setting up those.

I would be very curious to know AF/FB position about fuel surcharges calculation on award tickets. Do they think this is legal, illegal or that there is a legal vacuum?

Gajan

I would like to know why there are so many differences between premium earnings in FB?
KE First Class earns 175%, AF First Class earns 300%; long-haul Business Class on AF/KL earns you between 125% and 175% miles, while some Business Class fare classes on other airlines only earn 125%.

Why can they not make some alignment?

jsfr

I know they are not really interested in us Economy flyers (although I'm still convinced that they make more profit from my weekly €700-€800 r/t medium haul tickets in eco than from a monthly BC TATL passenger).

However, aer there any plans at all to improve the experience (like blocking the middle seat when not full as almost all *A carriers do for gold members). I feel appreciated with TK, OS, etc., I'm really really feeling less appreciated with AF these days - loyalty works both ways!

orbitmic

Some of the things I have been mentioned by friends and colleagues (feel free to agree/disagree):

- some complaints regarding auto-check-in
- some complaints regarding the new domestic/European seat
- some praise for improved catering in long-haul J and the quality of long-haul Y.
- some complaint about the disappearance of sandwiches at dinner time on relatively short flights in Y with the argument that a 1h30 flight (could mean leaving work/home at 5 or 6pm and arriving home/at destination at 10)
- some praise for lounge improvements, notably at CDG, AMS, and LHR including better food and drink
- some disappointment that the new J seat is not fully flat (albeit no specific complaint about the new seat) and renewed frustration at the 777 seats in Y.
- some complaints elite/elite + passengers do not feel very special (especially platinums) although no obvious agreement on solution
- some praise for the new AF and KL presence on facebook and twitter (but regret there is no such presence on FT)
- some complaint about the cheapening of the C product within Europe with NEO, for instance no more spirits and still no reintroduction of hot meals on flights which would have hot meals on much of the competition
- a mix of praise and complaints about AF and KL attitudes in a number of IRROPS stories. This does not necessarily make for a 'good' or 'bad' trend but perhaps for some 'best practice' stories?
- some suggestion AF-KL could introduce seat preassignments in Y for elite pax a la BA and LH.
- some renewed complaint about low earnings on cheap Y fares (renewed because they now offer twice more credit on BA EC and LH MM than on FB).

Anyway, that's what I have put together over the months, and some of this has indeed been fairly recurrent in FT debates in the last few months...

Gajan

Vegetarian food option intra-EU for KLM

stimpy

Just the usual. Please let them know that although I fly enough with them to be Platinum each year, I also fly enough for BA Gold because they offer fully flat seats in biz.

And I guess the 50% off La Premiere award thing was nice. Maybe do that more often and on more routes.

Or maybe do what BA do and regularly offer a free upgrade to La Premiere when purchasing a biz return. Discount biz please.

Arthur Randolph

Some already mentioned:
- Plat recognition
- 25% miles for cheap Y is frustrating, especially when you compare to SkyMiles (ok, you can discuss burn rate, but still, that's 4x more)
- Improve booking engine for complex itineraries (20EUR fee because I need to interline is ridiculous. No I don't want to fly BOS-CDG-JFK when I ask for BOS-JFK)
- Ability to select seats on codeshares has improved. Thanks!
- Wishful thinking: launch a status-miles earning american express in the US

intltraveller

One suggestion for differentiating FB Platinum would be to offer some sort of upgrade voucher - it would be nice if AF started being proactive instead of merely matching what they think the competition is in Europe. (I don't know any European carrier that offers this - though obviously the US ones do).

Another idea could be to offer some sort of access to La Premiere Lounge as it always sounds very empty. Perhaps, they could only offer it to Plats flying long-haul Business.

Promo-awards are great though would be nice if we could have access to them sooner (or even longer advance knowledge).

Interesting how present the AF/KLM brand is Delta marketing in the US (even in domestic only airports).

NickB

bmi do and so do, AFAIK, LH. That would definitely be a possibility, as would an open-doors policy à la BA (would have limited impact at CDG but useful at other stations, including AMS).

I would disagree on this. Even with these restrictions, the numbers would risk being too high. Note that neither BA nor LH give access to the CCR/FCT+FCL to their equivalent of plat (BA does give access to ordinary F lounges to Gold Card holders including the rather nice First lounge at LHR, as is the norm in OW, but not to the 'real' flagship lounge for 1st class passengers).
You would need a super-plat level, comparable to LH's Hon Circle to make it viable.

My own pet issues are a subset of those mentioned by Orbitmic, viz:
- auto-CKI: why not let it kick in at H-12 so that those who want to choose seats have an opportunity to do so (the BA-style advance seat selection for elites would be an alternative).
- non lie-flat new J seat (out of step with the competition already now, let alone in a few years' time).
- NEO C product: the lack of a full bar service makes the product feel 'cheap' and penny-pinching (pingre).
- irrops handling of dubious legality by KL.

GenevaFlyer

Hi,

A couple of things from me:

- Miles earnings ... still, especially in comparison to the evolution over at BA

- Lifetime status: could they look at something like Delta, where you can get lifetime status without need a full 10 years at Plat

- Before even a MQM earning card, a mileage earning card in the US

And some feedback. I clearly don't expect an answer from them on this one:

- C class pricing out of Atlanta. How come BA is offering me a lot more flexibility to travel to Europe (GVA in particular) at half the cost?

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

NickB

I fear that the answer to this one is simple: which airline's hub is at ATL and what relationship does that airline have with AF/KL?

orbitmic

Yep, one of the nasty side effects of joint ventures - it used to be the case that only the airline (singular) hub was paying a premium, now all the airlines (joint ventured plural) hubs do, so DL fares ex-CDG and AMS and AF and KL fares ex-ATL have gone up the roof...

GenevaFlyer

Hi,

I certainly know that ... but when that partner and all Skyteam is twice as expensive ... they may have something wrong.

To get back to my example:

- BA offering the same fare for pretty much every day of the week

- DL/KL/AF: the only way to get close was a double stop and very limited days of the week

I know, it's about economics, and I guess they are filling their seats ... but maybe they should look at it ...

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer