You want to go where?

It isn't surprising that AF has competition in Africa. They ran prices through the roof to West Africa. I started flying through Morocco on Royal Air Maroc for half the price, just to avoid AF's ridiculous fares. Now I can do the same on LH.

San Gottardo

They made an operational profit and their yields in Y have climbed back to pre-crisis levels whilst they still trail in C, no?

Oh, so they have already overtaken IB in the race downwards. Well, there still is Air China and Egyptair, or their new alliance partner AR, or Air Algérie.

Right you are ;-) Admittedly the AF forum feels so much more like a whiner forum and less an exchange/information forum than for instance the LH and LX ones. Probably has to do with the numerous people here feeling nostalgic about the old AF and having strong cultural ties to an airline which they would love to like but in the face of a McDonaldisation simply cannot do any longer.

JOUY31

Didn't somebody have "Yes, we can" as a slogan ?

San Gottardo

Yep, that was the head of communication of AF upon the launch of NEV4:
"Yes we can sell this as the hottest business product in the market!"

Or did you think of somebody else?

Henry III

Well, AF have recently started codeshares with FlyBE (there's a separate thread on that) - which is a Low-Cost Airline without the Low Costs. So, more eveidence of reduction in short-haul quality. (I've been wondering what happens to J pax on - say - JFK-CDG-MAN: what would be the reaction when being shuffled onto a seriously high-density Q-400 without even free snack; or J-PAX flying LAX-CDG-GLA who ends up on a same Q-400, only to find that it has to land in Cardiff* on its merry way to Bonnie Scotland!)

-- H

* No offence to the Old Country, of course!

bodory

Dear Henry, unfortunately the same happens for a J pax flying CDG-ATL-xxx ending up in a Comair Y only regional jet.

orbitmic

I know someone who did just that - MRU-CDG-MAN in J, so last segement on Fly Be (eco only and indeed nothing free) and no access to front rows either! It reminds me of these crazy people who beat up their children (or is it their wives?) even without a reason because 'if we don't know why, they do'. Except that in this case, it seems that the Flying Blue crowd are the children!

Henry III

-- H

NickB

Flybe gives complimentary drinks and snacks to "economy plus" pax. Don't C pax get booked in e+ on Flybe flights?

orbitmic

I believe my friend didn't get it but not sure if it was simply overlooked. I also thought eco plus passengers on Fly Be were sat in the front rows but again, no such thing on this (paid, full fare J ticket).

AshleyB

Removing P from the system is probably the only feasible policy for AF. They are unwilling to invest in a real first class cabin so as the market moves upwards (without AF) they are left with a costly friends and family section. So well done for the reality check!

The thin J arrangements are now calculated to supply contracts on key routes. Again this is a realistic approach. AF is not in the business of being a market leader and innovator. That is beyond the remit of this company. The Ryanair comparison is a little unfair but there are dynamic similarities. AF has aggressively pursued the bottom end of the market in Europe and has consequently seen a real surge in traffic. Yes, the Y cabin is now so miserable it is likely an infringement of UN human rights conventions, but honestly that market does not care. AF management knows this and exploits it successfully.

Two possible downsides. Firstly, having alienated the FF base management has weakened its reach in a key market. Secondly, in deciding not to seriously compete in the premium market the company runs a serious risk to the bottom line if Y travel suffers a serious collapse - for whatever reason. (I would add that while Premium Voyageur looks like a reasonable product for a largely non-premium airline, there are serious problems in the marketing in the home market.) When you are operating on such volume dependant margins you have little room for manoeuvre.