Air Canada B767-300 ER lie flat seats
Oct 9, 2006, 3:15 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Originally Posted by Cargoagent
Too bad you have no clue about the certification requirements for this kind of refurbishment.
Too bad Air Canada has no clue about it either or they wouldn't still have the first aircraft in the hangar.
They should have done their homework. With all the over-time it would have been cheaper to just lease a new 777 and start from scratch.
Oct 9, 2006, 5:26 pm
#17
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*E; HH-G; SPG-G; MR-S; الفرسان
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Cargoagent
Too bad you have no clue about the certification requirements for this kind of refurbishment.
Originally Posted by YYZFlyboy
I'm no airline expert but assume Montie Brewer is - his words from November 2005:
"An extensive refurbishment program......will replace every seat in the existing fleet with the newest, most comfortable passenger seating available, ..........including personal seat back entertainment, and a brand new look for the interior cabin. New Executive First lie flat seat on international routes Air Canada's new Executive First seat will provide international customers with luxurious first class comfort and service for a business class price. The key feature will be the introduction spring 2006 of a revolutionary lie-flat seat designed and manufactured by Contour Premium Aircraft Seating."
I would assume that a world-class corporation such as AC knows what it's talking about (regulatory issues, production and delivery issues such as contract and design specs etc.) when it makes definite and unconditional statements like this - right?
Anyhow I'm not personally bothered when this all happens (I like the big old seats myself) I just like some honesty but AC seems to love spouting off before they have all thier ducks in a row. Another example is the YYZ-LAX-SYD route which it announced last year but I'm told as yet hasn't even got regulatory approval for such a route.............Maybe someone in corporate/marketing should be held accountable for BS.
"An extensive refurbishment program......will replace every seat in the existing fleet with the newest, most comfortable passenger seating available, ..........including personal seat back entertainment, and a brand new look for the interior cabin. New Executive First lie flat seat on international routes Air Canada's new Executive First seat will provide international customers with luxurious first class comfort and service for a business class price. The key feature will be the introduction spring 2006 of a revolutionary lie-flat seat designed and manufactured by Contour Premium Aircraft Seating."
I would assume that a world-class corporation such as AC knows what it's talking about (regulatory issues, production and delivery issues such as contract and design specs etc.) when it makes definite and unconditional statements like this - right?
Anyhow I'm not personally bothered when this all happens (I like the big old seats myself) I just like some honesty but AC seems to love spouting off before they have all thier ducks in a row. Another example is the YYZ-LAX-SYD route which it announced last year but I'm told as yet hasn't even got regulatory approval for such a route.............Maybe someone in corporate/marketing should be held accountable for BS.
Oct 9, 2006, 7:17 pm
#19
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K MM * DL MM * HH Diamond * Marriott Lifetime Titanium * Queen's '92
Posts: 5,950
Originally Posted by imverge
Too bad Air Canada has no clue about it either or they wouldn't still have the first aircraft in the hangar.
They should have done their homework. With all the over-time it would have been cheaper to just lease a new 777 and start from scratch.
They should have done their homework. With all the over-time it would have been cheaper to just lease a new 777 and start from scratch.
Oct 9, 2006, 8:19 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Originally Posted by Simon
Yeah, that's right. Transport Canada would have rushed the approvals on the 777 that they didn't do on the 763 until they had gone over it with a fine tooth comb.
AC was way behind schedule with removing old seats, carpets etc...That was obvious from the pics we saw of the progress or lack of on AC Horizons. This was before Transport Canada got involved. Now we are hearing delays were also due in part to the supply chain.
That's right AC, blame everyone else but yourself.
Oct 9, 2006, 8:47 pm
#22
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sun Peaks, Taupo.
Programs: NZ Elite, AC SE100K, Westjet Teal, Marriott Bonvoy Gold Elite, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 6,136
AC should be a lot more forthright in their communications regarding the refurbs, however I will defend them on the time delay.
They have no choice but to have TC involved. If a supplier is late in delivery, it is a little hard to blame AC, it is not as if one can duck down to Home Hardware instead of Rona and buy widgets elsewhere. Having seen the guts of a wide body jet, thanks to Parnel for the AC Do in YVR 18 months ago, their is miles and miles of wiring. Remember the Swiss Air plane that blew up in the sky thanks to faulty wiring. Imagine if one piece of wiring was chafing on a piece of metal. It is a monumental task to undertake. Both TC and ACTS are going to be very thorough.
Have you ever renovated a house. When you start peeling back the layers, you find other things that need replacement or repair, these are things that are not budgeted for financially or timewise.
I feel for an excited AC that is eager to roll out the blue carpet, but it really does need to get it's act togther in open and honest communications with it's customers.
Being involved in the construction business let's me have sympathy for them with the delays and surprises.
They have no choice but to have TC involved. If a supplier is late in delivery, it is a little hard to blame AC, it is not as if one can duck down to Home Hardware instead of Rona and buy widgets elsewhere. Having seen the guts of a wide body jet, thanks to Parnel for the AC Do in YVR 18 months ago, their is miles and miles of wiring. Remember the Swiss Air plane that blew up in the sky thanks to faulty wiring. Imagine if one piece of wiring was chafing on a piece of metal. It is a monumental task to undertake. Both TC and ACTS are going to be very thorough.
Have you ever renovated a house. When you start peeling back the layers, you find other things that need replacement or repair, these are things that are not budgeted for financially or timewise.
I feel for an excited AC that is eager to roll out the blue carpet, but it really does need to get it's act togther in open and honest communications with it's customers.
Being involved in the construction business let's me have sympathy for them with the delays and surprises.
Oct 9, 2006, 9:04 pm
#24
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Originally Posted by Q Shoe Guy
Varig hasn't own any of their aircraft in quite some time!
They could have taken over the lease of VARIG's 777.
Just read my earlier post where I refer to "LEASE". As copy and pasted here:
"With all the over-time it would have been cheaper to just lease a new 777 and start from scratch."
Oct 9, 2006, 9:08 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Thanks for the Memories !!!
Posts: 10,657
Originally Posted by imverge
They could have taken over the lease of VARIG's 777.
Just read my earlier post where I refer to "LEASE". As copy and pasted here:
"With all the over-time it would have been cheaper to just lease a new 777 and start from scratch."
Just read my earlier post where I refer to "LEASE". As copy and pasted here:
"With all the over-time it would have been cheaper to just lease a new 777 and start from scratch."
Oct 9, 2006, 9:42 pm
#26
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,363
Originally Posted by YYZFlyboy
Another example is the YYZ-LAX-SYD route which it announced last year but I'm told as yet hasn't even got regulatory approval for such a route.............Maybe someone in corporate/marketing should be held accountable for BS.
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...060-0&Start=20
Oct 10, 2006, 4:56 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,636
Originally Posted by airbus320
I am most grateful to AC for the good taste in the choice of colours for the XM 767-300 project.
Please contrast with the following LOT 767-300 makeover.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2B212FED
Please contrast with the following LOT 767-300 makeover.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2B212FED
Oct 10, 2006, 6:50 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
Originally Posted by YYZFlyboy
Fair enough, but to announce it a year and half out - before they have any type of approval and from what I understand this approval may not be as forthcoming as they thought. In AC's own words the service would start the first half of 2007, that's only months out - on a major route and still no sign of a sched.
Don't get me wrong, this will be an awsome route for me as that's one of my common areas of travel but why don't they just get their act straight FIRST - before making these types of announcements. I'm not anti-AC (otherwise I wouldn't be here) but I am frustrated and I'm going to be critical of stupid or incompetent marketing/corporate media when they deserve it.
Don't get me wrong, this will be an awsome route for me as that's one of my common areas of travel but why don't they just get their act straight FIRST - before making these types of announcements. I'm not anti-AC (otherwise I wouldn't be here) but I am frustrated and I'm going to be critical of stupid or incompetent marketing/corporate media when they deserve it.
Oct 10, 2006, 8:44 am
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto YYZ UA-1K 1MM,QFgold
Programs: Royal Ambassador/ SPG Platinum 75/Marriott gold
Posts: 14,283
Originally Posted by Sebring
They announced it for the summer of 2007. The necessary bilateral negotiations are taking place next month. And they made the announcement as early as they did, apparently to gain support from QF which used AC's announcement as part of its campaign to keep SQ off the LAX-SYD route. QF cited AC's announcement - and may have solicited it - to show that there would be more competition on the route even without SQ. It apparently worked. That's why I have no doubt that the fix is in and the route will get swift approval, although I am hoping next month's negotiations lead to a general liberalization of Canada-Australia services so we can have a Vancouver-Sydney nonstop eventually and continuation, if AC desires, of Canada-HNL-Australia.
AC has said the 777-300 cant do HKG-YYZ thats 7700 miles LAX-SYD is 7500 miles. YVR-SYD is the same as HKG 7700miles.
However maybe some of the experts can tell us ??? are the winds better going to SYD? so the 777-300 can make it? Also if AC thinks its a great market for J seats...... interesting they will put a 777 on with the worst % of Premium seats.
