deepblue

Hi Guys,

Long time lurker, first time posting.

Just curious if AC still has an ombudsman...I used her a couple of years ago to resolve a dispute (successfully I might add), but now I can't find the ombudsman's info on the website.

Is the ombudsman history? What recourse do I have if I'm not satisfied with a decision from Customer Care?

Thanks.

Abby

From the Canadian Transportation Agency site:

PreferBulkhead

Deepblue ... welcome to FT!

Abby

I'm sorry, where are my manners?! I have learned here on FT that newcomers should be welcomed!

Welcome to FlyerTalk, deepblue!

There was a female Complaints Commissioner for awhile, is that who helped you before, do you think?

I don't think the ombudsman role has been around for awhile, but others here will be sure to have more info on that.....

However, the link I posted above does take you to a site that accepts complaints in lieu of the defunct Commissioner's office. Just click on How to File Complaints.

deepblue

Thanks Guys. Yes, I definitely dealt with a woman who was the ombudsman before.

Perhaps before I start too far down the road of contacting the Government over my issue, I'll let you guys weigh in on it, and on AC's response to it so far.

Here's a cut and paste of my issue on AC's website. I've marked my responses and theirs clearly. I'm an Elite member, if that helps.

Am I in or out of line with my expectations of a full credit vs. their proposed credit?

(sorry this is so long - i can be a bit verbose in getting my point across)

Customer 12/02/2005 03:11 PM
Hello,

My experience at the Air Canada counter here in San Francisco has prompted me to write you an email to protest a "Special Service Ticket I just had to purchase at the check-in counter.

I'm presently on the return leg of my trip to San Francisco, Flight XXX SFO-->YYZ. Last night, I phoned the Aeroplan Elite center at around 9:30pm PST to inquire about upgrading my seat home. I spoke to a woman at this time about my reservation, and indicated that I wanted to use an executive class upgrade certificate for my flight the next day. After looking up my booking reference # (which is XXXXX if you require it), the woman responded that the upgrade required a "System Wide" certificate in order to upgrade. I have 4 of these in my travel wallet, and so I told her that was fine. I also specifically said "Do I require 2 of these given the distance of the flight?". She responded that "No, only 1 of the system wide certificates is required".

She then proceeded to ask me which seat I wanted, to which I selected "5D". She then thanked me for calling, and we finished the conversation.

I arrived at the airport today (Friday, Dec 2nd) at around 11am. I had received a call from an Air Canada agent a few hours earlier informing me that the flight I was scheduled to be on was delayed 1hr 5m, and would now depart at 1:15pm PST. I approached the check in counter, and a woman there looked up my reservation as usual. She then said "Do you have an upgrade certificate for me Mr. XXXXX?". I then handed her the System Wide certificate, and she immediately said "No, not that one, you need the "Special Upgrade" certificate for your fare class. I explained to her that I had spoken with the woman at the Aeroplan center the night before specifically about what certificate was needed, and stressed that I was told it was the "System Wide". The woman at the counter replied with "No, I'm afraid that won't work". I then said, "Well what happens now, did I lose my previously reserved seat?". She replied "Yes, and the economy cabin is now full. So if you want to get on this flight you'll need to upgrade your fare category by.....$298.00 USD + $23.84 USD (tax), for a total of $321.84 USD. I looked at her in disbelief and stated that I felt this wasn't a very appropriate thing to do in the circumstance given that: a) I had been told I could use the System Wide certificate and b) I was a frequent flier on the airline that spends 10's of thousands of dollars a year on airfare with Air Canada.

Her response to me was "Well, everybody's trying the same story today sir, sorry".

So - faced with the notion of staying at the airport for another 12 hours and taking the red eye flight home that night in economy, I told her to proceed with getting me on the flight. She processed my credit card for $321.84 USD, and handed me a "Special Service Ticket" #: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

I'm a reasonable person, and have paid on a number of occasions for upgrades and fare class changes. As a traveling consultant, I've also paid the extraordinarily high "last minute" prices for airfare that we in the business community are required to endure from time to time.

In this instance, however, with the situation described above, I feel that paying for this upgrade was comparable to extortion, as I was placed in a situation where I could no longer fly home in a reasonable manner unless I paid the fee.

I'm writing you to request that this fee be reversed, so that I can continue to be a loyal Air Canada passenger, and can continue to tell colleagues about my positive experiences with your airline. I exclusively fly Air Canada for all of my personal and business travel. My travel habits in the 2005 status year have been lower than 2004 because of a temporary position change, but I'm now back in the full travel swing again, and expect to achieve the Elite tier quickly in 2006 with all of my West Coast travel.

Please let me know if we can rectify this situation swiftly, so I can forgo the issues I will be presented with when trying to explain these charges to my company, which will inevitably be charged back to me personally due to our policies.

Thanks for your attention to this lengthy email.

Regards,
XXXXX

-------------------------------------

Customer 12/13/2005 06:00 PM
Hi - I still haven't heard back from anyone on this, submitted it 11 days ago.

By way of an information update, I wrote the above prior to boarding the flight, from the departures lounge in San Francisco. When I boarded the flight, I was rather surprised to see that there were quite a few free seats in the rear section of the aircraft. I'm completely at a loss as to why the gate agent would tell me there were no seats available in this case,

I would appreciate a response to this item.

Thank you.

--------------------------------------

Response (Air Canada) 12/20/2005 11:23 AM
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

Thank you for your e-mail.

Your comments indicate that your recent travel experience with us fell short of the service levels we try to provide to each and every customer. Please accept our sincere apologies. During any travel experience, we know we have many opportunities to exceed our customers' expectations and, unfortunately, there is also the chance that we may fail to do so. While some of these circumstances are within our control, others are not. In either case, we understand that the experience is less than positive. We are grateful that our customers provide feedback that enables us to identify our errors and introduce measures so they won't happen again.

While we are unable to recreate a phone conversation that took place, we do apologize for any miscommunication there was regarding the types of certificates to be used for your upgrade. In order to remain fair and consistent to all passengers using upgrades, our airport agents have to adhere to the rules and regulations governing the use of the certificates.

That said, at the time of check-in, the fare type in which you had purchasaed was not available. Therefore the agent had to charge you the difference in the fare you had and the fare that was available. While we are unable to comply with your request that this money be refunded, we can however, as a gesture of goodwill forward you a future travel credit voucher. This voucher is valued at $200.00USD and is valid for one year from date of issue. It may be used towards the purchase of future travel with Air Canada and Air Canada Jazz.

We take your concerns very seriously. Feedback such as yours is tabulated and information is provided to the appropriate department as well as to the senior management group. Our awareness of the need to improve our customer service forms the heart of a major internal improvement program.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your experience. We value your business and your loyalty and we hope for another opportunity to provide you with a more pleasant travel experience in the very near future.

Sincerely,


XXXXXXX
Customer Solutions


-----------------------------------------


Customer 12/20/2005 11:37 AM
Hi XXXXXXX,

Thank you for updating me on the status of my submission. If the airline's policy is to not issue cash refunds for these types of incidents, I can accept this. But can you not meet me halfway and at least issue a travel credit that is equal to the amount I'm disputing? I am already planning trips commencing early 2006, and will apply this so there is no disruption with my employer or billing of my client...

If you're able to fulfill this request, I would be most appreciative, and would consider the matter resolved. I would also happily book one of my January trips immediately with your travel desk if needed to net the credit rather than dealing with paperwork and mailings.

Please let me know.

Thanks again for your response.


-----------------------------------------

Response 12/20/2005 02:31 PM
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

Thank you for responding.

I have reviewed your file with a manager. She feels that the $200.00 travel voucher is fair in this instance as the fees that were charged to you were in fact legitimate fees with the fare you purchased. Therefore, we are unable to comply with an increase to your voucher.

If you are booking a new routing, please do so. Once travel has commenced you may submit a copy of your itinerary and the voucher you receive to the following department and they will credit back the amount of the voucher to the form of payment on the file.

Air Canada Refund Services - 859
P.O. Box 6475
Winnipeg, Manitoba
R3C 3V2
Canada


We thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter.

Sincerely,

Customer Solutions

----------------------------------------

Customer 12/20/2005 03:20 PM
Hi XXXXXX,

I am afraid I'm not in agreement with you and your manager on this one. I don't see how I should be charged for a fare upgrade because of a mistake made by one of your customer service representatives in performing an upgrade. I was charged a fare upgrade fee because I was allowed to upgrade, and subsequently not able to 'downgrade'.

I'll happily return an upgrade certificate if that's what is in dispute.

Please confirm that you are not now closing this issue in your system so I can escalate this for review by the Ombudsman.

Thank you.

Global guy

Welcome Deep Blue.

I think what happend was most unfortunate and could have been handled better both on the phone and at the gate. However, the pax has a resposnsibilty to know the upgarde rules as well as the agent. Your end of the bargain is to know what class of fare you purchased and what type of certificate is required for the upgrade. While the confusion on the phone is not to be excused, you have to admit that you should know what you can and can't do with the certificates.
That is why so many of us want to know what will appear on next year's certs so we can plan accordingly. AC does not seem to understand our need to know well in advance. It affects what we buy now for travel in four or five months.
Back to your treatment. I have personnaly witnessed pax trying to argue that they brought the wrong type of certificate or forgot them, etc. I don't have much sympathy I am afraid. Once faced with the unavailable 'backgrade' I would have insisted to escalate at the counter before agreeing to purchase 'up' in economy. But that is hindsight.

The voucher offer you have, while not great, is a gesture of goodwill that I would consider goes half way to compensate you. I am sure Ac sees it as a half way gesture given that I feel you bear some responsibility in knowing what fare is upgradeable with what type of certificate. The resulting fare shortage situation is neither their fault or yours- they proceeded to sell another cheaper seat on the basis that you had the proper certificate.

Probably not the suppport you were looking for but my honest opinion.

deepblue

Hi Global Guy,

Thanks for the feedback. This is why I posted it, I really wanted to soundboard it off some other seasoned travel vets. I do agree that I "should have known", but perhaps what I left out of the above was that this ticket was not purchased by me, it was purchased by Travizon via a direct bill account for my client. As a result, there was no fare class displayed on my itinerary whatsoever. It simply read "economy".

This is why I questioned the AC rep on the phone when inquiring about my upgrade. I quite literally asked the person on the phone "is my ticket eligible for a System Wide Exec Upgrade Certificate"?

If the fare class was there it sure would have been helpful.

Looks like I'm stuck with this settlement regardless, as no ombudsman to go to means I'm looking at throwing my issue into the black hole that is government administration.

Thanks again.

NewToCanada

The problem here, I gather, is that lots of people try to pull a fast one by switching the certs. Your story is perhaps one they have heard many times from people intending to scam their way into exec class in bad faith. So then the question becomes: how to distinguish between an honest mistake and someone trying to scam the airline?

Clearly one must distinguish between the two. Or else every passenger will be assumed to be cheating and certainly that is no useful attitude when it comes to customer service.

I have made mistakes myself. Not this particular one, but a different one. In 2004 the SSWU certificates were gold, then, inexplicably, in 2005 the SSWU's were blue while the SWUs were gold. So early in the year I got to the airport and pulled the wrong ones out. Easy mistake. Was I penalized? No, as I had the SSWUs with me as well. Could I have left them at home? Easily. Would I have been really peeved if I'd been charged an extra $300 for the mistake? Most definitely. There are lots of ways to make honest mistakes.

The key issue for me here is that there were, in fact, seats in economy class. The obvious solution would have been to thrown you back in economy class. You would have lost your pre-reserved seat, might have gotten stuck in a middle seat, and it seems to me that would have been punishment enough.

I think that charging you at check-in when there were seats up front was a poor thing to do to a loyal customer. I also think their insistence on issuing you a credit for $200 is cheap and unnecessary. It would take very little for them to isue you a $350 credit -- which you would only be able to use on AC anyway -- and to keep you flying them.

So all in all I think in your shoes I'd be quite annoyed.

I don't know how much choice you have in your travel. If it were me and I had lots of choice I would probably try to get comped into gold with AA or UA or someone who flies out of SF and begin flying another airline. Then you could write a letter to AC explaining that after many years of flying AC you have chosen a different airline.

Right now it seems to me they are calling your bluff and you either move to the competition -- and be sure to make a point of telling them so -- or just take the $200 and call it a day. It really depends, I suppose, on how much trouble it would be to change airlines: fewer direct flights, etc. etc. No point in punishing yourself just to spite AC.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Actually, given the length, more like 4 cents. Let us know what you decide to do. Good luck!

IluvSQ

I agree their giving you back half the money seems reasonable.

But what was your fare class? And did you read the certificate yourself?
All the rules are printed clearly on the certs.

Global guy

That is why asking the agent to confirm the fare class you have booked is always the best first question when booking the upgrade.Good luck with your request for more compensation- let us know how it turns out.

deepblue

I do realize the certs clearly indicate the classes under which you can upgrade. As stated, I was not aware of the class I was in, so I simply asked the agent on the phone if the certificate I had in my hand was sufficient to upgrade on the ticket she had for me in the computer.

Agree it would be better to ask what class I'm in, lesson learned for sure...but I think one definitely needs to keep in mind that not everyone is as educated at such a low level as to how these fare classes and upgrades work. Most people I know don't have a clue.

I'll let you guys know how it nets out.

Thanks.

Stranger

Interesting story. I agree with other posters that you should grab the $200 at give up at this point.

This said, what comes across as very odd it telling you that your reservation in economy is now gone and that you have to pay a surcharge to take the flight.

Which is patently false. You were booked on that flight and that's it. Seat assignment is a minor detail.

Mind you, given the opportunity to pay something like $120 extra for a J seat on SFO-YYZ, I would gladly pay.

yyznomad

deepblue, welcome and sorry to hear about your situation. Hope it works out for you.

Stranger

Welcome BTW.

Simon

I'm with Stranger on this. You have booked, and hold, a ticket in fare class whatever. The upgrade would have allowed you to sit up front. If it fails to clear, you should presumably be able to still sit in the back.

What happens if AC downgrades the equipment, and people with "confirmed" reservations are now bumped to the back? Presumably some of the fare classes wouldn't be available then either.

Or what if someone saw a little old lady trying to upgrade, and she was told it was full, and volunteered to withdraw their upgrade request? They get charged extra?

Something doesn't seem right on that part of it.

Simon