Air Canada selects boeing 777s and 787 Dreamliners
Apr 26, 2005, 10:18 am
#92
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Originally Posted by Sebring
For example, AC could run three 777s on YYZ-LHR in the summer and add a YEG-LHR flight with a 762 or 763 displaced from the YYZ-LHR route. A single 777 can replace the dual 767 services on YUL-LHR, YUL-FRA and YUL-CDG, again, liberating some 767 flying. Furthermore, AC has first crack at remarketing its Airbus widebodies, so it controls the timing of when those aircraft are released to the market. If international travel demand is strong, it will have the ability to hold over 340s for an extra year or two so that more of the 777s become growth lift.
Or am I totally in left field?
Apr 26, 2005, 10:43 am
#94
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Originally Posted by Sebring
For example, AC could run three 777s on YYZ-LHR in the summer and add a YEG-LHR flight with a 762 or 763 displaced from the YYZ-LHR route.
Apr 26, 2005, 11:16 am
#95
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What a wonderful news! I love 777. The 787 looks also very interesting.
I was seated last week with an AC A-330 pilot deadheading to YYZ and we chatted about the coming announcement for most part of the flight. He mentioned his personal preference for the 777's and pointed out the not so good reputation of the 340-500.
Also hope the seating will be 2-5-2 when traveling alone it is much more convenient and perfect when flying as a couple. When flying on other *A carriers in Y I avoid 747 for this reason. For transcon flights within Canada I always try to fly on 767,A330/340 everytime I can.
The 5 seats in the middle row is not perfect but typically when the aircarft is not full they never fill the row completely leaving the middle seat empty.It is also appreciated by families because they can be seated together.
Bravo AC!
I was seated last week with an AC A-330 pilot deadheading to YYZ and we chatted about the coming announcement for most part of the flight. He mentioned his personal preference for the 777's and pointed out the not so good reputation of the 340-500.
Also hope the seating will be 2-5-2 when traveling alone it is much more convenient and perfect when flying as a couple. When flying on other *A carriers in Y I avoid 747 for this reason. For transcon flights within Canada I always try to fly on 767,A330/340 everytime I can.
The 5 seats in the middle row is not perfect but typically when the aircarft is not full they never fill the row completely leaving the middle seat empty.It is also appreciated by families because they can be seated together.
Bravo AC!
Apr 26, 2005, 12:49 pm
#96
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Originally Posted by Al B
...The other worry is the J cabin - traditionally it's 2x3x2, but one hopes AC configures it as a 2x2x2 in keeping with their combined F/J cabin/service philosophy...
If you're in the middle and the two aisles are laying flat could you get by without waking them up?
Apr 26, 2005, 12:55 pm
#97
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Air Canada buying a huge amount of Boeing aircraft !!
Where are the good old bavarian airbus guys bribing half of the Canadian Government to buy Airbus, if you need them
Ohh, either in jail or dead
But at least the airport in Munich is named after one of those guys....
But seriously, hopefully Boeing is smarter when it comes to the aircraft diameter this time with the 787 then they were with the 767 and 777...
Airlines earn by far the most money in interconti J class and airbus with its 2-2-2 is more much space efficient than Boeing with a 2-3-2 ( too tight, people are complaining massively, see KLM ) or 2-2-2 ( waste of space and falling yields... ) on the 777, otherwise since the 787 is much further ahead in its designing stages, no surprise that AC chose the product...
And good for Boeing that AC may be in a financial condition to pay for the planes, in contrast to the competition south of the border...
Where are the good old bavarian airbus guys bribing half of the Canadian Government to buy Airbus, if you need them
Ohh, either in jail or dead
But at least the airport in Munich is named after one of those guys....
But seriously, hopefully Boeing is smarter when it comes to the aircraft diameter this time with the 787 then they were with the 767 and 777...
Airlines earn by far the most money in interconti J class and airbus with its 2-2-2 is more much space efficient than Boeing with a 2-3-2 ( too tight, people are complaining massively, see KLM ) or 2-2-2 ( waste of space and falling yields... ) on the 777, otherwise since the 787 is much further ahead in its designing stages, no surprise that AC chose the product...
And good for Boeing that AC may be in a financial condition to pay for the planes, in contrast to the competition south of the border...
Apr 26, 2005, 2:33 pm
#98
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 504
Has anyone at AC leaked future fleet seat maps yet?
Read the title. [Has anyone at AC leaked future fleet seat maps yet?]
With the refurbished 767s, and the 32 brand new Boeings how will AC configure the interiors.
I think that AC will hopefully come up with something revolutionary. A whole new executive first seat and configuration. Could it be something like VS's Upper Class Suite or BA's Club World. I'm thinking a 777 with 2-3-2 abreat aisle with the 2 window seats and 1 centre seat in each aisle facing backwards. A triangluar-like shape pod could maximize passenger space like on BA.
I think that AC should lauch Air Canada Club Class on ALL of its widebody fleet. Configured 2-4-2 on a 777, 2-3-2 on a 787 and 2-2-2 on a 767.
I think that in the far back quarter of the aircraft a charter class zone would be fair treatment for those flying on deeply discounted "Tango"-like fares. With 10 abreast seating on the 777s, 9 abreast on the 787s and 8 abreast on the refurbished 767s.
With the refurbished 767s, and the 32 brand new Boeings how will AC configure the interiors.
I think that AC will hopefully come up with something revolutionary. A whole new executive first seat and configuration. Could it be something like VS's Upper Class Suite or BA's Club World. I'm thinking a 777 with 2-3-2 abreat aisle with the 2 window seats and 1 centre seat in each aisle facing backwards. A triangluar-like shape pod could maximize passenger space like on BA.
I think that AC should lauch Air Canada Club Class on ALL of its widebody fleet. Configured 2-4-2 on a 777, 2-3-2 on a 787 and 2-2-2 on a 767.
I think that in the far back quarter of the aircraft a charter class zone would be fair treatment for those flying on deeply discounted "Tango"-like fares. With 10 abreast seating on the 777s, 9 abreast on the 787s and 8 abreast on the refurbished 767s.
Apr 26, 2005, 2:43 pm
#99
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Originally Posted by Stranger
Point no. 4: in the current political context, I wish we could afford a boycott of US-made stuff. But yes, I know, we do need to eat vegetables... And presumably ACE could not let a good offer pass?
Apr 26, 2005, 2:48 pm
#100
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 18
787 info
Lots of flashy PR, hype, and interesting info on the 787 at Boeing's site:
http://www.newairplane.com/default.html
There's also information about a live web seminar
at 6PM PST tonight (April 26) with the 787's Chief Engineer.
http://www.newairplane.com/default.html
There's also information about a live web seminar
at 6PM PST tonight (April 26) with the 787's Chief Engineer.
Apr 26, 2005, 2:59 pm
#101
Join Date: Apr 2005
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As for your other conclusions, you are just flat-out wrong. AC is cancelling its options for the A346 and will fill out the widebody fleet, as required, with more Boeing planes. The future widebody fleet, as I have been saying since immemorial, will be comprised of two derivatives of the 787 that will replace all existing 767s in time as well as the A330s and thinner markets now handled by the A343s. The 777s will replace the other A340 flying, including the 345 routes. Air Canada's goal was to simplify the widebody fleet over time. It was not to add another layer of complexity as you seem to believe is possible.
Right on. To add to your well-reasoned rebuttal of exAC's post, Boeing won the deal because:
1) the impetus for fleet renewal was the 767 to begin with, and the 787 appears to be a far better replacement than the comparable Airbus offering, the A350, a fact affirmed by AC on the conference call. AC's route network will always need an airplane for so-called long-thin routes - Canada's aviation market dictates this, even for long-hauls out of the Toronto hub for many routes. AC's current fleet mix of 42 767s and 18 Airbus widebodies reflects this. The 787 is filling AC's needs far better than Airbus's counter-offer of a mix of A330/A350. Airbus could not offer AC the airplane they wanted at the low end of the pax range, the airplane most needed by AC to replace the 767. This, I think, was the deal-breaker for them.
2) Boeing offered AC the opportunity to right-size the widebody fleet, which led to the 777 order along with the 787s. They will now have a 220 seater (the 787-8), a 280 seater (787-9), and a 300+ seat aircraft (777-300). Since the departure of the 747-400s, AC has lacked a 300+ seat aircraft for slot-constrained markets. No doubt, the twin engined 773s at 300+ seats offer tremendous economics over the 284 seat A343 and remains a far smaller challenge to fill than a 744 year-round. I think the 777 order ended up being tacked on to fill an increasingly clear void in AC's fleet makeup, and obviously, when shopping in bulk they ultimately got a better deal than they would have by splitting any order half Airbus -half Boeing.
This is a great deal for AC, and will hopefully allow them finally to offer a competitive product against, for example, BA to LHR and CX to Asia. Yes, the Airbus widebodies will be around for some time, but with each new airplane, AC is taking serious steps to winning more pax.
I've been lurking a while on this board, finally had to jump in!
Apr 26, 2005, 3:09 pm
#102
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Welcome to FT and the AC Board, Dash8toYYJ !!! Hope you enjoy your time here.... 
Originally Posted by Dash8toYYJ
Right on. To add to your well-reasoned rebuttal of exAC's post, Boeing won the deal because:
1) the impetus for fleet renewal was the 767 to begin with, and the 787 appears to be a far better replacement than the comparable Airbus offering, the A350, a fact affirmed by AC on the conference call. AC's route network will always need an airplane for so-called long-thin routes - Canada's aviation market dictates this, even for long-hauls out of the Toronto hub for many routes. AC's current fleet mix of 42 767s and 18 Airbus widebodies reflects this. The 787 is filling AC's needs far better than Airbus's counter-offer of a mix of A330/A350. Airbus could not offer AC the airplane they wanted at the low end of the pax range, the airplane most needed by AC to replace the 767. This, I think, was the deal-breaker for them.
2) Boeing offered AC the opportunity to right-size the widebody fleet, which led to the 777 order along with the 787s. They will now have a 220 seater (the 787-8), a 280 seater (787-9), and a 300+ seat aircraft (777-300). Since the departure of the 747-400s, AC has lacked a 300+ seat aircraft for slot-constrained markets. No doubt, the twin engined 773s at 300+ seats offer tremendous economics over the 284 seat A343 and remains a far smaller challenge to fill than a 744 year-round. I think the 777 order ended up being tacked on to fill an increasingly clear void in AC's fleet makeup, and obviously, when shopping in bulk they ultimately got a better deal than they would have by splitting any order half Airbus -half Boeing.
This is a great deal for AC, and will hopefully allow them finally to offer a competitive product against, for example, BA to LHR and CX to Asia. Yes, the Airbus widebodies will be around for some time, but with each new airplane, AC is taking serious steps to winning more pax.
I've been lurking a while on this board, finally had to jump in!
1) the impetus for fleet renewal was the 767 to begin with, and the 787 appears to be a far better replacement than the comparable Airbus offering, the A350, a fact affirmed by AC on the conference call. AC's route network will always need an airplane for so-called long-thin routes - Canada's aviation market dictates this, even for long-hauls out of the Toronto hub for many routes. AC's current fleet mix of 42 767s and 18 Airbus widebodies reflects this. The 787 is filling AC's needs far better than Airbus's counter-offer of a mix of A330/A350. Airbus could not offer AC the airplane they wanted at the low end of the pax range, the airplane most needed by AC to replace the 767. This, I think, was the deal-breaker for them.
2) Boeing offered AC the opportunity to right-size the widebody fleet, which led to the 777 order along with the 787s. They will now have a 220 seater (the 787-8), a 280 seater (787-9), and a 300+ seat aircraft (777-300). Since the departure of the 747-400s, AC has lacked a 300+ seat aircraft for slot-constrained markets. No doubt, the twin engined 773s at 300+ seats offer tremendous economics over the 284 seat A343 and remains a far smaller challenge to fill than a 744 year-round. I think the 777 order ended up being tacked on to fill an increasingly clear void in AC's fleet makeup, and obviously, when shopping in bulk they ultimately got a better deal than they would have by splitting any order half Airbus -half Boeing.
This is a great deal for AC, and will hopefully allow them finally to offer a competitive product against, for example, BA to LHR and CX to Asia. Yes, the Airbus widebodies will be around for some time, but with each new airplane, AC is taking serious steps to winning more pax.
I've been lurking a while on this board, finally had to jump in!
Apr 26, 2005, 3:17 pm
#103
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Originally Posted by da_guy
I would love to have a mutual boycott between our so-called friends up north and the US. Results would be US GDP suffers .1% (maybe); Canada becomes 3rd World in a month. You up for it?
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
et en français pour nos amies américaines
O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Merci beaucoup et bienvenue à Canada!!!!
Apr 26, 2005, 3:29 pm
#104
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Sing your little songs, but even though it hurts, you know that without big bad America, Canada would not exist economically.
Or have you gone totally insane due to a lack of hockey games?
Or have you gone totally insane due to a lack of hockey games?