Understood, with thanks.

Sounds like a great event! Kudos to AC for taking the time. I don't visit the other forums much, is this kind of meeting normal for major carriers?

Interesting that a lot of hardware issues were discussed. What about the "soft" issues, like inconsistency of product due to poor cabin crew etc? What's their HR plan to address those issues I wonder?

I wouldn't expect my boss to hold me personally responsible for the sprinkler problem, but I _would_ be concerned if I had to tell him I couldn't get the product out on time (not the same time it would have been, but an allowance for delays would have been a good idea).

=aw

That was on my list, however the people sitting in front of us kept hogging all the airtime :D

Jazz is now governed by a power-by-the-hour contract. AC tells it where to fly and when, sets the product standard and sells the seat. Jazz provides the plane, the maintenance, the crew and the groundhandling in many centres. Not sure a Jazz do would have the same value.

Interesting juxtaposition.

=aw

AC planning and scheduling has management control over the routes, pricing, etc. and Jazz over the operations.......... to answer the juxtaposition post ;)
and Jazz does report to Mountie Brewer who is president of AC

Everyone was in front of you :D

I would propose a moderator in the future.Some people did not get a question in while others had more than their share of "air" time. ;) Would a list of questions also help?I would expect other "from the floor" questions to still be the way of the next meeting(s).

[QUOTE]
The issue of Y+ was one thing but the constant whining about UA,etc went on too long and took valuable time away from other issues that other participants wanted to bring up. When a long laborious discussion is warranted it could have been done between the interested parties and the AC person(s) in charge. There were 30 other people in the room with things to ask and concerns to be registered with the idea being to give AC as much feedback on as many subjects as possible in the short time frame we had.

Simon's tongue in cheek comment about people hogging the floor in front of him was dead on.

I believe that if the room was set up differently like it was for the YUL DO we would have had a better communication environment for more feedback discussions between AC and ourselves. Ben recognized this also. We live and learn.

I had thought of a moderator approach but usually in a controlled environment people are more flexible and considerate.

I wouldn't say 'normal' although there is precedent - US had a round-table discussion with FTers last year, and a major one (100 FTers+) is in the works with CO. Among the north-american carriers, however, AC is the only one that has shown commitment to hold these events on a regular basis.

Q Shoe Guy made it all the way from Japan for this event. ^

He paid slightly more than I did to come to YYZ from YSB :o

Thanks Simon for a very good report.
Kudos to Parnel and AC for giving this opportunity to the FFers.

It is rare to see an organization opening its doors to its customers twice in a quarter (compared to some corporations who use focus groups and /or target surveys to get feedback). It seems to me that the new blood at the decision-making level is doing its best to improve the service and to listen to its frequent flyers. Since one has to start crawling before one can walk, let's give this new mgmt a chance to prove itself after coming out from a difficult financial situation.

I didn't notice any mad scramble to sit in the front row seats, and there were a couple open chairs up there right up to the moment the session started, so if this appeared to be a reason that discussion centred on certain subjects, I suppose those who want to discuss certain matters in future should sit closer to the front and not in the back rows. We deferred to AC staffers who were the ones who identified questioners. A moderated approach would not have resulted in any different give and take. There were lots of pauses, that led to various members of our group raise new issues on their own volition, leading to another theme of discussion.

I am not sure how else it could have worked unless each of the AC staffers discussed a theme and then elicited our views. What had you in mind otherwise Parnel? Was this sesssion so uncivil? Did it go on too long? If so, someone in "authority" could have wrapped it up sooner. You are getting very deferrential to authority in your old age. What's the point of having a face-to-face with AC staff if we cannot express those issues that give us major concerns about the product they are offering? Weren't they there to listen to their customers? Otherwise, AW would have been quite correct in his characterization of the event as solely a PR exercise by ACE to placate us. I felt we all benefited, and it was quite clear from some of the AC responses that these managers are not always aware of what we see on the front line.

[The issue of fare rules and the language these use now on the AC site is a case in point. Yes, these must reflect IATA tarriff language, but my question related to the incomprehensible abbreviations used on the current booking engine. And from the response of the two women who should have know about this, it was clear to me they had never "sampled" the product and were clueless about what these rules now look like.]

Heh-heh-heh...I guess you'd like to know what I thought?

When I finally got the floor briefly since a few people dominated the debate er, Q/A ;) (I wish some people would have realized that everyone wanted a chance to participate), I got what Simon described subject to the following:

Firstly, I properly noted that the majority in the room were Carpetbaggers from lower Central Canada! :p

I praised Tango fares and web check-in... :eek: (Subject to what parnel did to me as I describe over on errorplan.com :mad: ;) )

I got a non-answer about YEG and the new CRJ's and ERJ's,. Sorry, no trans-border = no business and me telling others to fly the competition. YYC is and will always be a non-viable hub. The fact that International Travellers to LHR and FRA face the same problems as trans-border is simply inexcusable and can't be blamed on the YYC Authority. AC is scheduling the flights and I wonder if anyone that was from AC in the room has actually flown some of the flights they schedule there.

The fact that the simulators don't have YEG programmed (while very telling and symptiomatic) was a real good laugh for our group and I appreciate our Instructor programming snow for the others to have YEG-like conditions in and out of LAX!! :D :D (I wish to note the restraint of others who must have felt the urge to crash the simulators when they were with Rupert ;) , who joined us at the Simulator facility - I'm not sure his presence was mentioned. I actually shook his hand....)



All in all, it was a very good event and I applaud AC/AP for having it and encourage them to have more. My criticisms of them will not be universal any longer or automatic.

P.S. I would be remiss not to add my thanks to Ms. back seat for driving me T1 to catch my return Tango flight before dinner was over. I must say in all honesty, it was the most pleasant and smoothest drive I have ever had and she is certainly a professional driver!! :D