AC do notes
 

Folks,

I just got home from this, but took much copious notes on the YYZ do that I will post after dinner.

Needless to say it was interesting and a lot of fun.

Thanks again to Parnel for organizing, and Ben Smith (and the rest of the AC/AP team, including their newest member ;) ) for hosting us.

More news to come shortly, and one question:

Q Shoe Guy: are you shore9's dad? :D

Simon

I knew Simon would post fast! I look forward to reading the notes. Good time was had and I want to echo the thanks to all for organizing this. A very informative session, and interesting to see behind the scenes of AC. The SOC was neat to see and the Sim. was just awesome and not nearly long enough! I want to go back there soon! Great to meet everyone and put faces to names. Sorry I couldn't make the dinner part. I only wish I had asked more people what they do for a living that sees them travelling so much.
Thanks again.

Ok, here goes.

We started with lunch at the Cara facility, served of course on J class trays and salt and pepper shakers that you didn't have to bang the bottom of to get the pepper out ;)

Salad, bread, cheese/grapes/crackers, and then a choice of chicken, salmon, or a vegetarian dish.

AC/AP folks were at all the various tables.

One of the main items I engaged AC on over lunch was the passes, which I think are a fantastic idea. Specifically, I asked about the possible expansion to something more along the lines of a 500/1000 mile pass rather than city pairs. AC confirmed that the new western pass is a first step in this direction and would serve as a good test. There are different rates for landing AC flights at different airports which makes it a bit more complex, but they are definitely looking into this idea and the corporate pass idea we have discussed before.


We then engaged in a Q&A session with the AC/AP folks, including again their newest member in marketing ;)

Question 1

Plans for new seats.

There is a board meeting on Tuesday to decide next steps. No deal is signed as yet.

The plan is to start October 1 on the North American fleet, taking approximately 5 days for a 320 to be re-done.

Plan is for widebodies to be done February of next year.

These seats will not be the ones on the 345 or the horrible green plasticky seats on the 321s. AC admits that these latter ones are not very good, but are very "durable" :)

My notes indicate they would like to demo these new seats to us.

Question 2

Fleet plans

They are looking at the A350, more A340-600 from Airbus, or Boeing 787/777ER/777CR and hope to make a decision over the next couple of months. This has been going on over the last 4-5 months.

There will be an announcement shortly on this.

The CRJ-705s will fly in June, the first Embraers will fly in August.

CRJ 200s will be taken off Texas routes ASAP, and the plan is to get them off YYZ-ATL shortly thereafter (thank the stars ^)

Question 3

When the 767s seats are re-done, will it be just new seats or the whole interior?

Right now, it is just carpeting and seats. If Boeing is selected for the new long-haul planes, they may also bring to bear a package that would include new lavs and overheads for the 763 fleet.

Question 4
Aeroplan.com

They are looking at being able to do one-way awards, however there is complicated business logic in the reservation system.

There was a further question about only being able to grab 2 D seats on a particular flight and the issue that families might not be able to travel together in J, whereas it would work with other airlines. I don't think the lady answering really understood the question, as she said that there are often more than 2D seats available on a particular flight.

...MTC...

Keep going Simon...I need more info!! ;) If you finish your report before 22h00, I'll get you a beer at the next do!! :D

I'm disappointed I couldn't make either event. Small babies tend to occupy a great deal of one's time. Plus, have been away very frequently recently so my wife needed a bit of time to herself.

Hopefully, I can catch up with everyone at another do. I'm dying to ask AC about Tango/Fun point accumulation in an open sky market!

I'm so sorry I had to cancel, but business comes firts! I really hope you all had a great time with the AC folks!

Question 5
Why every year has the SE program been "cut, cut, cut" ?

Note: unfortunately with a lot of these, there was limited opportunity for follow-up.

"For the most part, the 2005 program held steady from the year before"

The 3 core benefits are considered to be: Instant KK, lounge access, and upgrades, and they are still there.

Ultimately, they plan to align benefits to the value that the customer brings to AC. This value has changed over the past few years with the changes in fares and is no longer necessarily mileage based. This will be phased in over 2-3 years.

Part of the reason that there is not currently a direct link between revenue and qualifying levels is the difficulty at Aeroplan in tracking the amount of revenue associated with a particular ticket due to the distribution channels/methods that are outside of their purview. Tickets booked on the web they can get at, those through TAs etc. is not so straightforward, so often it is necessary to do imputed revenue calculations.

[SM: it does not seem as if they intend to increase levels for qualification, but will continue if necessary to tinker with the ways to GET Q miles]

Question 6
Tango, Tango, Tango

Much discussion around this. While AC has certainly established fare levels that have different benefits and restrictions associated with them, some of the flyers pointed out that often the person flying the ticket is not the one buying it, so not really the one who has the choice -- it is corporate travel departments.

AC pointed out that transborder, the compeititive product with the US carriers is really Fun rather than Tango -- and it is generally cheaper.

On the introduction of new fare structures to international routes, they are looking to do similar things to what has happend in North America. However, there is not a plan to have the "same attributes as Tango inside North America".

There were also some questions from why fly, I think it was, regarding Tango fares and equivalents sold through UA on AC metal and UA members not getting credit for segments, and basically being told by the UA 1K desk not to fly AC due to these issues and those around seat selection. The UA system seems to select Tango fares by default, and then neither UA nor AC can book seat selection for the customer. It was suggested that if Fun is really cheaper than Tango, that RINGPET just be zeroed out for sale in the US. Those of us in the peanut gallery opined it would be a good idea to actually zero out Tango everywhere :D


Question 7
Pass product

They are aiming to get a corporate product available by Q4.

As I mentioned earlier, also looking at the possibility of a North America pass product, but it is complicated.

Parnel queried the possibility of using X credits for short-haul, Y credits for long-haul within NA -- this is being looked at, the goal is to have something in place by end of the year.

The new Western pass should serve as a good test for Intra-Ontario / Intra-Quebec and other opportunities.

Question 8
The question Tractor Boy would have loved.

"If Aeroplan 'pays' Air Canada for reward seats, why can't they purchase as many seats as members require on any flight?"

Originally, a certain number of seats were allocated from AC to AP.
With the growth in members, demand has grown for seats.
AC/AP are discussing ways to improve access. The Avenue awards program has been very successful -- there has been a 50% increase in seats (2M/year) -- but they agree there is more to be done.


...MTC...

Only half a beer so far...;)

Now the real question...!

Who got sick in the simulator? :D

OK, I'll bite: who's the newest marketing team member?

Question 9

From Shareholder: with the changes to the 319/320, the "preferred seats" now have less pitch than the ones further back. What opportunity to change this, or at least stop identifying them as "preferred" ?

There was a question as well around E+ and the fact that there is no middle seat blocking for E/SE.

AC's current reservation system does not allow it. It has been looked at several times, but costs were prohibitive. They agree they "should be able to" provide this service.

Part of the problem is that the emergency row seats have to stay as they are, so real option was taking out a row in J and increasing pitch in the back, taking out a row in Y (not likely) or leaving as is.

It seemed we were going to vote on that, but it never took place.

The new economy seats will be "slimline".

Overall, within NA, the domestic load factor ranges between 60%-70%, and on some routes i.e., YUL-YYZ, it is much higher.

Similarly, the Y load factors to Europe have been ~ 93% -- so the models that have been run for E+ have all failed profitability-wise so far.

The "club class" product was also discussed -- it will apparently have a Y tray but a larger amount of food.

My notes are a bit sketchy on this, but I believe that we also heard that there are 4 more NA configured 763s and perhaps 2 new ones that are going to be converted to SJ.

One thing of interest which I didn't get a chance to raise -- in this month's in-flight magazine, 762s are shown as having "SJ". Ken might have a view on that one :)

Question 10
Inconsistency of stand-by policies: sometimes agents will allow it, othertimes there is a small charge, othertimes they will say "not even for $1000".

Having a standardized charge for this is not possible on some international flights due to local rules.

Domestically, the group did seem to agree that if a pax was standing there, there was a seat open on the plane, they should be allowed to go standby on it.

Question 11
Fare rules -- gross, ugly abbreviations on the website

No apparent solution to this one. IATA rules, but we have the shorthand.

Question 12
Punished Edmontonian steps to the plate

What plans for YEG, especially as YYC is awful for making connections. We also got to hear about the carrousel in YYC again ;)

The Calgary Airport Authority is basically a PITA to deal with. They are talking with them on an ongoing basis to try to get something done.

With the advents of the Embraers and new CRJs, there will be better frequencies out of YEG to places like YYZ, YUL, YQR, etc. No mention of transborder.

Some of the folks in attendace weren't as familiar with the new EMB as some of the rest of us -- the Embraer seat pitch will be > a 320.

The 321 type seats will NOT be sticking around ^ ^ ^

Question 13
Simon follows up on PE

"YYZ is horrible both inbound and outbound.

Queue management is atrocious by GTAA. No fast-track lines through security or INS. Not Air Canada's fault, but can you help us?

Inbound -- gate agents don't show up, marshallers are late, we're stuck in an RJ especially at night"

Outbound:

-- nothing much can be done about INS. Part of the problem was WS complaining about AC PAX getting favoured treatment in the lines so GTAA has taken over the line management. :mad: :mad: Stupid WS. If they would have just stuck in T3 we'd all be better off. Thanks for coming out.
-- they are working with GTAA on possible fast-track for security in T1 and T2

Note: it was mentioned that we could get the name of the appropriate people at GTAA and write to them. I would suggest we get this name and also write to the press as no doubt GTAA would ignore letters unless it is publicized. They are very arrogant and pompous, by all accounts. (my opinion, not ACs)

Inbound:

-- they didn't realize there was that much of a problem, but will definitely look into it.
-- anyone with an ID (i.e., pilots) can walk us off a plane. It would be nice to get this in a document somewhere that we can show.

Question 14
Miscellaneous

319LR IS being studied for short-haul Canada-Europe flights.

New destinations being looked at include Tehran, Cairo, Pakistan.

Air Canada believes the new lie-flat seats will be industry-leading, and competitive with, or better than carriers' First products.

An additional 4 767s (including 2 from the desert) and one 340 will be on-line by summer. The 340 is coming from BWIA and the interior will be thoroughly upgraded to AC standards.

Question 15
AP lifetime status

Lifetime SE is not sustainable model, as we have heard before.

They recognize the need to recognize long-term SE customers, but are looking at other ways to do that. Most of these PAX are looking for comfort and recognition when they do fly, not necessarily SE status per se.



That was pretty much it as far as I can recall for the Q&A. AC/AP were very open and forthright with us in answering questions, fielding criticism and compliments and not dodging the questions.

From here we boarded the bus -- 29" pitch, give or take and made our way to the SOC.

This was very interesting to see -- different people running the flight plans for different regions with various tools on their desks.

Much thought is put into re-scheduling, moving planes around, what flights to change/cancel in the event of storms or other problems, and coordinating with Jazz.

AC and Jazz will sometimes "lend" each other a plane to protect the brand -- i.e., put a 319 between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg if a Jazz plane goes mechanical.

Sometimes people luck out -- Jetz plane being subbed for an RJ (which I have experienced, and is a marvellous event).

I also asked the key question:

On the YYZ-YVR route, many of us will select the flight that is scheduled to go with an internationally configured aircraft. Many of us have experienced these flights being downgraded to 762s. How often does this happen, and why?

They don't like to change aircraft if they can avoid it, as the particular Fin # is planned for certain routes days in advance, so a change causes the whole plan to need to be re-done. For the most part, flights are taken off these routes due to planes on other routes going mechanical or otherwise unavailable, and the SJ service being needed on routes where it is actually marketed -- i.e., international segments, rather than domestic routes where you may get it but it is not sold that way. It is NOT done for load reasons.

From there we rolled onwards to the flight simulators, where they broke us into groups of four.

I was in a group with PE, Nordsfan, and Empress.

We each had a turn at either taking off or landing the simulator...

PE took off out of LGA, I think -- I asked whether we could get YEG instead, but the pilot running the simulator explained that YEG was not in their database. :D :D :D

PE and Nordsfan did good jobs getting us up and down safely, although I will admit that my seat was not secured on the floor, so I rolled backwards and hit the rear wall during takeoff :)

For Empress' turn taking off out of LAX, snow was added to the mix for a bit of a YEG feel. Once we were up we got some turbulence added, to boot. The pilot did explain that if they ramp up the turbulence, people sometimes get sick.

I then had the opportunity to land the plane back in LAX. This was a very fun experience and I managed to get the bird down with only a slight amount of coaching. Figuring out how to keep it straight on the runway after landing was a bit more challenging.

Apparently when CAE first built the simulators, they hadn't programmed in what exactly would happen if someone landed without putting the gear down (none of us had that problem). So someone did, and the engines keep running. Now apparently, they "fall off".

Last part of the experience was the cabin simulator. I had been in this before back in 2000 as part of the Fear of Flying course that used to be run in YYZ by Glen Burns. We had two FAs who looked far too young to be flying for AC :cool: run the simulator for us and we got to experience smoke in the cabin, heavy turbulence, and simulated screams from back in economy somewhere :eek: and then got to take a ride down the slide. Great fun.

That pretty much wrapped it up. I will let someone else summarize events at the dinner later on as I had to head home, but all in all, it was a great event, I enjoyed meeting some of the folks off this board (some of whom should have pictures), and again, very strong kudos to Ben and team for hosting us and pulling off a fantastic event.

Thanks again Parnel for setting this all up for us, and I look forward to the next one! ^ :)

Simon

Not me, but there was a gallon sized barf bag on hand just in case!

Thanks for the update, Simon. It's too bad I had to miss it... :(