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parnel Jul 2, 2004 12:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YUL
Regret, I am in La Sarre right now so I missed that birthday party.
But last week, I went to the fête nationale in Montreal; we were about a quarter of a million in there having a great party.
Come on in next time around. :D

Ref Canadians paying Gilles Duceppe: Quebecers provides about 21% of the federal budget. Quebec represents about 22.5% of the cdn population and 21% of its taxation base.
Total federal spending in Quebec (ie contracts-investments-transfers-federal public servants living in Qc-UIC etc.) averages about 17% of the total, after prorating budget deficits/surplus. (Info sources includes C.D. Howe Inst.)
So I'm definitely not ashame of anything here.

Actually I question what it really means when the feds say they are "helping the have not provinces"... :confused:

I know Lasarre and actually had a girlfriend there who was really nice and wanted to marry "un Bloke" because all the francophones were lazy and not ambitious :D Alas my project at Quevillion was soon over and I got transferred elsewhere and we never did keep it going.
As for the stats on Quebec if they only represent about 22.5% of the population why are they allowed to have 25% of everything and 1/3 of all supreme court judges. As for the economic stats I will admit I have to do some homework but I would be very surprised if Quebec only received 17% of all transfers from the feds.

And btw it is called St Jean Baptiste day;only the revisionists in the PQ call it differently and I've been to many many St. Jean parties and parades in lots of different parts of Quebec as well.So it should be incumbent on you to expose yourself to the Canada that this country really is and not to the one that is lied about in so called intelligent circles in Quebec. Been there done that myself.

YUL Jul 2, 2004 2:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parnel
(by YUL in bold) I know Lasarre and actually had a girlfriend there who was really nice and wanted to marry "un Bloke" because all the francophones were lazy and not ambitious :D (Ha Ha; I wont tell you what my english girlfriends are saying :D ) Alas my project at Quevillion was soon over and I got transferred elsewhere and we never did keep it going.
As for the stats on Quebec if they only represent about 22.5% of the population why are they allowed to have 25% of everything (like what?) and 1/3 of all supreme court judges (it has never helped us so far. But believe me in constitutional matter and multilateral dealings, we're only one in ten provinces). As for the economic stats I will admit I have to do some homework but I would be very surprised if Quebec only received 17% of all transfers (I mentioned ALL feds expeditures: transfers are only a very small part of fed spending).

And btw it is called St Jean Baptiste day (outside Quebec yes);only the revisionists in the PQ (well the Liberals also agreed on it in 1977 or so) call it differently and I've been to many many St. Jean parties and parades in lots of different parts of Quebec as well. So it should be incumbent on you to expose yourself to the Canada that this country really is and not to the one that is lied about in so called intelligent circles in Quebec. Been there done that myself.

About been there, done that (+ bought the tshirt), I'm ok on that.
I spent more than half of the last 25 years working outside Québec in places like Chilliwack, Edmonton, Petawawa and Ottawa. The first 13 years as an officer in the canadian armed forces and the last 12 as a public servant. I would say most of my friends are still english speaking.
When you talk about misperception, I know what your talking about. I got too often into hostile people just because I had a french accent or a Quebec origin. I was a fervent federalist back then. For some reasons, I started travelling the US west coast instead of the cdn west coast. I realised only ten that I felt better in the US than in many parts of my own country. That's when I started to analyse the situation...

That's why I believe a new deal has to be achieved in Canada. The power sharing should be similar to what we all signed for in 1867. Or it could be Quebec independance and maintaining all the presents links that both sides whishes to maintain. Or it could be an unhappy split and we'll still find each others around having to trading within NAFTA. Or it could be saying F*** you Quebec, you must not quit, and we will still manage two third of your taxes for your own because we love you so much. You are forbidden to leave despite the fact the contract we signed in 1867 been topedoed many times. (we sure all will be happy campers... :rolleyes: )
Quebecers have nothing against Canadians and definitely them don't want to bother them in anyways. They just feel somewhat like orphants. They only want to have a home, like other Canadians have made theirs be making their own constitutional changes and refusal to alter it afterward.

parnel Jul 2, 2004 4:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YUL
About been there, done that (+ bought the tshirt), I'm ok on that.
I spent more than half of the last 25 years working outside Québec in places like Chilliwack, Edmonton, Petawawa and Ottawa. The first 13 years as an officer in the canadian armed forces and the last 12 as a public servant. I would say most of my friends are still english speaking.
When you talk about misperception, I know what your talking about. I got too often into hostile people just because I had a french accent or a Quebec origin. I was a fervent federalist back then. For some reasons, I started travelling the US west coast instead of the cdn west coast. I realised only ten that I felt better in the US than in many parts of my own country. That's when I started to analyse the situation...

That's why I believe a new deal has to be achieved in Canada. The power sharing should be similar to what we all signed for in 1867. Or it could be Quebec independance and maintaining all the presents links that both sides whishes to maintain. Or it could be an unhappy split and we'll still find each others around having to trading within NAFTA. Or it could be saying F*** you Quebec, you must not quit, and we will still manage two third of your taxes for your own because we love you so much. You are forbidden to leave despite the fact the contract we signed in 1867 been topedoed many times. (we sure all will be happy campers... :rolleyes: )
Quebecers have nothing against Canadians and definitely them don't want to bother them in anyways. They just feel somewhat like orphants. They only want to have a home, like other Canadians have made theirs be making their own constitutional changes and refusal to alter it afterward.


Remember that feeling in the US is only because they thought your accent was cute. They are that easily taken in.Try and change the status quo and they will turn on you like there is no tomorrow.
All your arguments ertainly have some logic about them but in the real world if /quebec was country with over 300,000,000 anglo speakers around them, how long do you think it would take for English to be come the lingua franca there. People inside Canada are pretty tame about bilingualism but I don't think an anglo north america would be too crazy about a French Quebec shoving their culture of 4 million francophones down their throats.

And please remember that to leave Canada you need to have the approvals set out in the constitution....so be nice.
And also remember that if Quebec can leave so can Montreal and Western Quebec choose to stay in Canada. It will never happen so enjoy our flag and your country and be proud to be Canadian.

YUL Jul 3, 2004 8:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by parnel
(In bold by YUL) Remember that feeling in the US is only because they thought your accent was cute (They actually tell me I've some kind of a british accent :D ). They are that easily taken in.Try and change the status quo and they will turn on you like there is no tomorrow (most of them don't even know where Canada is located - including Bush jr who 5 years ago thaught "Jean Poutine" was Cda's PM :D They will still go after the business as they do right now; why would they do otherwise and loose potential $ ? They don't have your emotionals stakes).
All your arguments ertainly have some logic about them but in the real world if /quebec was country with over 300,000,000 anglo speakers around them, how long do you think it would take for English to be come the lingua franca there (NAFTA lebelling is already English/Spanish/FRENCH. We already do most of our trading directly with the US. Those who know us know we were the biggest supporter of the FTA - which wont even matter; they just wont want to loose the business). People inside Canada are pretty tame about bilingualism (we never asked for it, we only want to be able to live/work in french in Quebec; the ROC can do whatever it wants) but I don't think an anglo north america would be too crazy about a French Quebec shoving (?!?!?) their culture of 4 million (actually 6 millions out of 7 millions Quebecers) francophones down their throats (There is no such french language/culture shoving anywhere in NA. The business/trade language is english now and will remain the same)

And please remember that to leave Canada you need to have the approvals set out in the constitution (There is no such provisions actually)....so be nice (Ya right :D :D :D :D ).
And also remember that if Quebec can leave so can Montreal (Oh I see, a departure tax... :D ) and Western Quebec (Only provinces joined confederation and are it's only constituents, not the cities. Cities are only spelled out as provincial competence/creatures...) choose to stay in Canada. It will never happen so enjoy our flag (that seems rather emotional... ) ; and your country and be proud to be Canadian.


Parnel, I respect your emotions and I only whish it focuses your energies to construct a better Canada. This is the only way we'll get to a win/win situation.

The plan B approach (tough stand) is counterproductive as it actually gets quebecers feeling Canada as a prison you want to get out of. You would Parnel react the same way.

parnel Jul 3, 2004 8:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by YUL
Parnel, I respect your emotions and I only whish it focuses your energies to construct a better Canada. This is the only way we'll get to a win/win situation.

The plan B approach (tough stand) actually gets quebecers feeling Canada as a prison you want to get out of.


Nothing emotional;you have constructed all the emotional aguments about being part of NAFTA,etc without taking into account that no one in the big picture wants a french speaking separate country in North America. The clarity is not a plan B;it is a rational and legal plan that would see the whole country agree on whether the confederation can be broken up....you signed on with others so you need the others to sign you out....deals are deals.
A better Canada does not include the blocheads whose only point of being right now is a scandal on the part of the feds. If not for that they would have been wiped out on June 28.
A better Canada should only include truly National politicial parties that run candidates in all ridings of the country.
A better Canada could be well served without the revsionist history being taught in Quebec.
A better Canada could be well served if people in Quebec were asked the truth about the passport they really want to carry abroad.
A better Canada would be better served if those in Quebec who want separation were to be honest about never ending referendum promises that they can never win,even thought they tried to steal it in 95 with voting fraud.You cannot have referendums every time you think you can win;that's blackmail or the famous Parizeau lobster pot approach. And that's why we have a clarity act.
And finally you are dead wrong if you think parts of Quebec could never remain part of Canada if they so choose. Once you open the door you open it all the way.There is absolutely no jurisprudence about this and people have the absolute right to choose to remain in their current status if they so choose to.
Notice how the boroughs around Montreal just chose to stay outside the main City. They did it for all the wrong reasons but they did it because they don't want their cultures comprimised. They want to live in a Quebec that is a part of Canada and they delivered that message very succintly and forcefully. They are not going to be roped into ultranationalistic politics which was what that was all about with the PQ.
So if you want a Quebec with Rimouski as your capital and no Montreal or Gatineau have at it.

YUL Jul 3, 2004 8:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by parnel
Nothing emotional;you have constructed all the emotional aguments about being part of NAFTA,etc without taking into account that no one in the big picture wants a french speaking separate country in North America. The clarity is not a plan B;it is a rational and legal plan ...

You're proving my point very well :D

Thanks for your contribution to national unity :D

And I really whish you come back and retire in Montreal :) . That you have a great time/happiness here, whatever the political outcome, with all the others who decided to stay despite the PQ/douce bag regimes. ;)

parnel Jul 3, 2004 1:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YUL
You're proving my point very well :D

Thanks for your contribution to national unity :D

And I really whish you come back and retire in Montreal :) . That you have a great time/happiness here, whatever the political outcome, with all the others who decided to stay despite the PQ/douce bag regimes. ;)

I still own property in Quebec,Westmount of course, and know that Quebec will always be a part of my Canada.Your play on words shows you have no real rational argument about separation, and in reality doen't really want it. You are just a groupie being played with by wannabes. :D
Follow yvon Deschamps and join the real country........CANADA


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