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-   -   OT: Post-Election Discussion Thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/333019-ot-post-election-discussion-thread.html)

Shareholder Jun 30, 2004 11:55 am

"Your former locally owned food and department store chains are now owned by outsiders who take all the profits away with them."

Did PROVIGO get sold to somebody? Is that big drugstore chain now in "foreign" hands? True, SanFrancisco is on the ropes, but it was due to rapid expansion outside Quebec and not on any "domestic" market problems. Neither THE BAY or EATONS were local department stores, though MORGANS and OGILVY'S have undergone the same process as virtually every other local city centre family-owned department store in NAmerica, gobbled up by larger national groups. LE CHATEAU and dozens of other niche market chains remain Montreal-based. And all those big multinational drug outfits are located in or around the megacity. Pratt & Whitney hasn't fled, nor has Rolls Royce. KRAFT expanded its operations in Montreal, even shifting most candy manufacture to the city.

Like their European brothers and sisters, Quebecers will accept somewhat higher tax rates as long as they are getting services in exchange, like the most comprehensive Child Care on the continent. Even language policies, which likely contributed more to any stagnation, have not blunted foreign investment in the province. [Companies don't buy other companies unless they are convinced they will be profitable and are operating in markets that a vibrant.]

I suggest, Parnel, that you consider hitching a ride on one of those ships full of whatever you've been buyng and selling, and see if bougeois Beijing or Shanghai will be more to your liking. Of course, now that India has gone socialist too, refuge is getting harder to find.

Bytepusher Jun 30, 2004 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by terenz
How did the previous provincial (conservative) governments blow the $13 billion or so Heritage Fund that Lougheed built up?

I'm surprised no one there has tried to pin the blame on the Liberals or N.D.P.

As far as I know the Heritage Fund which actually has $17B in assets is still there. They stopped putting more money in a long time ago and they did spend some of it but it's mostly still there. It's set aside as a seprate entity so it doesn't count in the government accounting. (It's interesting that our 2nd worst auditor general Sheila Fraser, has resoundingly slammed the federal libs over the same issue, setting up foundations outside the government financial structure).

It's funny if they just took $1B of that, gave it as an endowment to the UofA they'd have a top 5 engineering school in a decade instead of the football powerhouse they currently have.

Bytepusher Jun 30, 2004 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by Shareholder
Did PROVIGO get sold to somebody?

Yes, Loblaws, do try to keep up...

Cloud Lounger Jun 30, 2004 12:55 pm

with credit to Mel Brooks
 

Originally Posted by exAC
Memo to King Ralph:

Ref: That Firewall thingy.

Ralphie Boy,

I am thinking that we might need a moat to go along with the wall. I just can't decide which side of the wall to put it on.

If we put it on the outside then it helps slowdown anyone trying to scale the wall. But, if we put it on the inside then maybe they will drown when they fall off the wall.

Rats can't swim can they?

An idea would be to get the 280,000 or so souls in Alberta who voted Liberal to actually do the construction (as slave labourers of course) ensuring they were on the outside when finished so that the master race can live in peace!

zieg heil pfft, zieg heil pfft, seig heil pfft, we are the master race! :p

parnel Jun 30, 2004 1:26 pm


Originally Posted by Shareholder
"Your former locally owned food and department store chains are now owned by outsiders who take all the profits away with them."

Did PROVIGO get sold to somebody? Is that big drugstore chain now in "foreign" hands? True, SanFrancisco is on the ropes, but it was due to rapid expansion outside Quebec and not on any "domestic" market problems. Neither THE BAY or EATONS were local department stores, though MORGANS and OGILVY'S have undergone the same process as virtually every other local city centre family-owned department store in NAmerica, gobbled up by larger national groups. LE CHATEAU and dozens of other niche market chains remain Montreal-based. And all those big multinational drug outfits are located in or around the megacity. Pratt & Whitney hasn't fled, nor has Rolls Royce. KRAFT expanded its operations in Montreal, even shifting most candy manufacture to the city.

Like their European brothers and sisters, Quebecers will accept somewhat higher tax rates as long as they are getting services in exchange, like the most comprehensive Child Care on the continent. Even language policies, which likely contributed more to any stagnation, have not blunted foreign investment in the province. [Companies don't buy other companies unless they are convinced they will be profitable and are operating in markets that a vibrant.]

I suggest, Parnel, that you consider hitching a ride on one of those ships full of whatever you've been buyng and selling, and see if bougeois Beijing or Shanghai will be more to your liking. Of course, now that India has gone socialist too, refuge is getting harder to find.

Well you got the answer about provigo....and as for our separatist friend say metro is bigger I know differently;a very good friend is their outside lawyer and he says they are getting their lunch eaten by Loblaws, and costco.
As for Jean Coutu he has bought in the US so he can get the visibility foe a larger company to buy them out.
Le Cahteau is an anglo owned firm who employ more people outside of Quebec than in so that in case the idiots separate they will not be dependent on the province.

The big aerospace players have stayed because of loads of tax gifts from the province but both Pratt and Rolls employ significantly less people in Quebec than elsewhere.
Kraft had shut down some ops but still had the building and again employ less people in Quebec than elsewhere and only lesser skilled people who are cheaper in Quebec than elsewhere.

Show me how much foreign investment has grown ove rthe last few years;even with the threat of separation more or less gone foreign is not streaming in unless they get a cheap power deal or some other goodies. Is GM still there.........NO!! 3500 jobs went with that closure.
As for unemployment.. it is still almost the highest in the Country although they have created some jobs.
If you don't think language policies have blunted investment why has the government granted so many exemptions to the Language law? They even offered GM a sweet deal language wise if they would have stayed.
I am very very plugged in to Quebec and know what goes on there so please don't claim to be an expert.
As for your other remarks about what I do to make a living.....grow up!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

parnel Jun 30, 2004 1:41 pm


Originally Posted by YUL
I really love reading your comments... :)

Please please, keep writing :D


There are three fantasy lands in the world...euro disney;orlando disney and the original in southern california. Has Quebec been bought by Disney? :confused:

exAC Jun 30, 2004 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by Cloud Lounger
An idea would be to get the 280,000 or so souls in Alberta who voted Liberal to actually do the construction (as slave labourers of course) ensuring they were on the outside when finished so that the master race can live in peace!

zieg heil pfft, zieg heil pfft, seig heil pfft, we are the master race! :p

Memo to King Ralph:

Ref The Wall:

Hey Ralph:

Isn't it strange that people can lump all Albertans into a group and call us 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', 'Racists' and make all sorts of slangs and slurs that if we made the same we would be labelled 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', and 'Racists'.

Maybe we should point out that Alberta has a more multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-racial background than most other parts of Canada.

I was just out on my driveway and took stock of the 12 houses closest to me and the people that own them. 4 are visible minorities, 2 more are direct immigrants from other countries. Most everybody on the street came from somewhere else before settling in Alberta. As far as I can tell the neighbour across the street and me are the only ones born here. If we count the Newf two doors down with the other 6 then 7 of the 12 houses come from different cultures. In this riding the voter percentage was one of the highest in Canada and was 73% for a conservative candidate.

But, I guess we must all be bigots and racists.

Keep building the firewall.

The Winger Jun 30, 2004 2:47 pm


Originally Posted by exAC
Memo to King Ralph:

Ref The Wall:

Hey Ralph:

Isn't it strange that people can lump all Albertans into a group and call us 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', 'Racists' and make all sorts of slangs and slurs that if we made the same we would be labelled 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', and 'Racists'.

Very well put exAC. But then again, the people who make these remarks keep voting liars, thiefs and dictators into power. Shows you how bright they are.

parnel Jun 30, 2004 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by The Winger
Very well put exAC. But then again, the people who make these remarks keep voting liars, thiefs and dictators into power. Shows you how bright they are.


And Ralphie didn't do his part to sink Harper's ship with his health statements; liars thieves....yep Edmonton legislature is where you find them.
Round up the posse.

Cloud Lounger Jul 1, 2004 1:15 pm

sticks and stones...
 

Originally Posted by exAC
Memo to King Ralph:

Ref The Wall:

Hey Ralph:

Isn't it strange that people can lump all Albertans into a group and call us 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', 'Racists' and make all sorts of slangs and slurs that if we made the same we would be labelled 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', and 'Racists'.

Maybe we should point out that Alberta has a more multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-racial background than most other parts of Canada.

I was just out on my driveway and took stock of the 12 houses closest to me and the people that own them. 4 are visible minorities, 2 more are direct immigrants from other countries. Most everybody on the street came from somewhere else before settling in Alberta. As far as I can tell the neighbour across the street and me are the only ones born here. If we count the Newf two doors down with the other 6 then 7 of the 12 houses come from different cultures. In this riding the voter percentage was one of the highest in Canada and was 73% for a conservative candidate.

But, I guess we must all be bigots and racists.

Keep building the firewall.

I don't recall lumping Albertans together and calling them this and that as you describe above but the fact that a majority of Albertans (most of which who would in my estimation be a reasonable lot) wish to elect 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', 'Racists' as their representatives to Parliament is a whole other matter - new Canadian or not.

Stranger Jul 1, 2004 1:30 pm


Originally Posted by exAC
Memo to King Ralph:

Ref The Wall:

Hey Ralph:

Isn't it strange that people can lump all Albertans into a group and call us 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', 'Racists' and make all sorts of slangs and slurs that if we made the same we would be labelled 'Rednecks', 'Bigots', and 'Racists'.

Maybe we should point out that Alberta has a more multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-racial background than most other parts of Canada.

I was just out on my driveway and took stock of the 12 houses closest to me and the people that own them. 4 are visible minorities, 2 more are direct immigrants from other countries. Most everybody on the street came from somewhere else before settling in Alberta. As far as I can tell the neighbour across the street and me are the only ones born here. If we count the Newf two doors down with the other 6 then 7 of the 12 houses come from different cultures. In this riding the voter percentage was one of the highest in Canada and was 73% for a conservative candidate.

But, I guess we must all be bigots and racists.

Keep building the firewall.

Adding the number of people who did not vote to the remaining 27% leaves quite a bit of room for us though. Thank god.

BTW, methinks you misunderstand King Ralph. Ralph is more or less Chretien's twin brother: a non-ideological opportunist who just likes power. And, like Chretien, has a wonderful instinct about his constituency. And for Ralph, to be outflanked on the right in Ottawa would be disatrous.

My suggestion would be that you seriously consider the Alberta Alliance, if you don't want to be disappointed.

parnel Jul 1, 2004 1:55 pm

I hope our misguided friend YUL went to downtown Montreal, Quebec Canada today to see real Canadains eat a birthday cake and sing the best national anthem ever. Since "Douce bag" said he would represent all Quebecers in his speech, does one think he may show up at some Canada day festivities....since Canadians elected him and pay him,the thought would have been nice.

Cloud Lounger Jul 2, 2004 8:13 am


Originally Posted by The Winger
Very well put exAC. But then again, the people who make these remarks keep voting liars, thiefs and dictators into power. Shows you how bright they are.

Who ever told you that I voted Conservative was mistaken

YUL Jul 2, 2004 9:46 am


Originally Posted by parnel
I hope our misguided friend YUL went to downtown Montreal, Quebec Canada today to see real Canadains eat a birthday cake and sing the best national anthem ever. Since "Douce bag" said he would represent all Quebecers in his speech, does one think he may show up at some Canada day festivities....since Canadians elected him and pay him,the thought would have been nice.

Regret, I am in La Sarre right now so I missed that birthday party.
But last week, I went to the fête nationale in Montreal; we were about a quarter of a million in there having a great party.
Come on in next time around. :D

Ref. Canadians paying Gilles Duceppe: Quebecers provides about 21% of the federal budget. Quebec has about 22.5% of the cdn population and about 21% of its taxation base.
The total federal spending in Quebec (ie contracts-investments-transfers-federal public servants living in Qc-UIC etc.) averages about 17% of the total, after prorating budget deficits/surplus vs dept. (Info sources include C.D. Howe Inst.)
So I'm definitely not ashame of anything here.

Actually I question what it really means when the feds say they are "helping the have not provinces"... :confused:

jimyvr Jul 2, 2004 10:12 am

i think that is the main problem. Conservatives are abusing the use of freedom of speech to attack and discriminate other groups of people.


Originally Posted by Stranger
Well, no. That is the very thing that freedom of speech is about. (I personally even would support nutcases such as Zaidel's right to free speech; people are smarter than you think.)

Anyway, just let them shoot themseves in the foot. What's wrong with that?

Eventhough they suffered a setback, they'll never learn the real truth on why they lost.


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