Upgrading Using Points
Apr 13, 2004 | 5:34 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Toronto
Programs: ACMM, Hilton Diamond, IEEE, PTC, CPS, CSBC, USBI
Posts: 1,175
Upgrading Using Points
Most airlines I fly with allow upgrading using their points. This has never been an option with AC.
Any speculation as to what the chances are that it might get introduced in the 2005 programme?
Any speculation as to what the chances are that it might get introduced in the 2005 programme?
Apr 13, 2004 | 7:47 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ at this time
Programs: ACMM / Altitude S100K / HH Diamond
Posts: 6,285
Well Cam ... we can always speculate ... I would like to see it personally ... but not sure if anyone in AE/AC has thought that far ahead ... I think I may have seen a post recently discussing something similar, but not sure really and am jet lagged on the west coast (ok a mini jet lag) ... but if you search in the last month or so maybe something will turn up.
Have a good one! ^
Have a good one! ^
Apr 13, 2004 | 8:09 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ/YOW
Programs: AC SE 2MM * DL MM * HH Diamond * Marriott Lifetime Titanium * Queen's '92
Posts: 5,986
Someone else can speak to this better than I, but if I recall correctly:
(a) RD doesn't like the idea; and
(b) It would require big time IT changes, and hence is a non-starter
Simon
(a) RD doesn't like the idea; and
(b) It would require big time IT changes, and hence is a non-starter
Simon
Apr 13, 2004 | 9:28 pm
#5
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
The issue with international is that:
i) AC's aircraft has a small J cabin compared to other airlines such as UA.
ii) Many AC oversea stations do not use their own system so this makes day of departure upgrading impossible since you can't verify amount of miles available.
iii) There won't be much seats left, if any at all, after FFers upgrade using their CERTs.
iv) With AC having smaller J cabins, you want to ensure that all the upgrade seats are not taken by those using points so those with status can't upgrade. If you only allow upgrade on day of departure, you run into problem (ii) above.
i) AC's aircraft has a small J cabin compared to other airlines such as UA.
ii) Many AC oversea stations do not use their own system so this makes day of departure upgrading impossible since you can't verify amount of miles available.
iii) There won't be much seats left, if any at all, after FFers upgrade using their CERTs.
iv) With AC having smaller J cabins, you want to ensure that all the upgrade seats are not taken by those using points so those with status can't upgrade. If you only allow upgrade on day of departure, you run into problem (ii) above.
Apr 13, 2004 | 9:53 pm
#6
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Platinum, former AC E35K
Posts: 6,338
I think they should be allowed to use points to upgrade, maybe they should have people request the upgrade ahaed of time, that way they can tell if they have the points to do so or not. Then they will get upgraded on the day of the flight after all the status members are upgraded. There a still a number of flights where people can upgrade on internationally, for example many of the YVR - asia routes and a couple of the yyz - lhr flights if you pick the right time.
Apr 13, 2004 | 10:19 pm
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto YYZ UA-1K 1MM,QFgold
Programs: Royal Ambassador/ SPG Platinum 75/Marriott gold
Posts: 14,283
AC cant do upgrades at the moment we dont need to do anything to make it more complicated. AC computer system is 3 monkeys under the desk... lets wait till they get money to upgrade. {4 monkeys 
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Apr 14, 2004 | 9:16 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC*SE MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, IHG Dia RA
Posts: 3,488
Sell SWUs for points
I've always thought that an easy way of allowing upgrading using points would be for Aeroplan to sell upgrade certs for points: ie. create an u/g cert award. With the reduced number of SWUs distributed this year I sort of expected to see that happen. Since there's already a mechanism in place for upgrading using certs (SE/E/P status, UK *A upgrades, etc.) it wouldn't mean any changes to their computer system.
Apr 14, 2004 | 12:38 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Shanghai
Programs: CX Diamond, HH Diamond, A-Club Gold, Hyatt Platinum, Shangri-la Jade, Intercon Gold Ambassador
Posts: 1,370
...but how many points?
Let's say AC did sell certs for points. How much would they charge?
I would guess 5,000 absolute minimum for a N/A upgd, could be 30,000 - 50,000 for an international upgrade (SWU) one way . If you value points at 2c/mile you are better off going the eBay route...
Notwithstanding that, it would be a nice option to have.
I would guess 5,000 absolute minimum for a N/A upgd, could be 30,000 - 50,000 for an international upgrade (SWU) one way . If you value points at 2c/mile you are better off going the eBay route...
Notwithstanding that, it would be a nice option to have.
Apr 14, 2004 | 12:39 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ/YOW
Programs: AC SE 2MM * DL MM * HH Diamond * Marriott Lifetime Titanium * Queen's '92
Posts: 5,986
Presumably they would have them in line with people like DL and NW who let you use points to upgrades.
This does sound like a very good idea, and gets around the IT issues.
But not the RD one
This does sound like a very good idea, and gets around the IT issues.
But not the RD one
Apr 14, 2004 | 12:42 pm
#11
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
For discussion: So assuming that they charge 30,000 to upgrade one way on an international flight, would you be upset if all the upgrade seats are gone by the time your upgrade window using CERT opens? On a flight like YVR-SYD where there are only 24J to begin with, there is not much U/G space for FFers to start with. If they charge people for upgrade, they can't possibly make it only available on day of departure. Chances are that it'll be unavailable and that will generate even more unnecessary goodwill on top of not being able to use them for award travels.
Apr 14, 2004 | 12:50 pm
#12
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: NZ Silver, AC SE100K, Westjet, Marriott, Global Entry
Posts: 6,875
Originally Posted by Empress
For discussion: So assuming that they charge 30,000 to upgrade one way on an international flight, would you be upset if all the upgrade seats are gone by the time your upgrade window using CERT opens? On a flight like YVR-SYD where there are only 24J to begin with, there is not much U/G space for FFers to start with. If they charge people for upgrade, they can't possibly make it only available on day of departure. Chances are that it'll be unavailable and that will generate even more unnecessary goodwill on top of not being able to use them for award travels.
This is likely a logistical nightmare, but the only fair way IMO.
Apr 14, 2004 | 12:54 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Platinum, former AC E35K
Posts: 6,338
they could always say you get a card and put 50,000 AP miles on it, and depending on the route, the card gets punched for the appropriate number of miles, this could be done at the gate. And then at the end of the year any unused AP miles would be refunded, that way it wouldn't piss of people if they never got the upgrades.
Apr 14, 2004 | 1:03 pm
#15
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
Originally Posted by taupo
Yes, I think they need to make the space available to those SEs and Es using certs first, then make space available to people buying the U/G using points (this will likely have to be done at the gate), then op ups for SEs and Es.