YXEGeordie

Hi Everyone

I have grumbled about this a lot, but being based in YXE must be the worst city in Canada to fly out of with a population of 300K. A few facts to back up my assertion:

1.We have been completely Rouged (currently almost all flights are their dreadful A319s) with all the associated cancellations, crap service and horrible aircraft and now that AC doesn't fly to YYC, if one of the Rouge flights to YYZ craps out it might be 2 or 3 days before a seat is available because they cannot send you to YYC for onward travel.
2. Compounding this is the pricing. Westjet has only one nonstop flight a day (early only) to YYZ, but lots of flights to YYC. So demand for nonstops to YYZ is really high and we have no real choice. Hence Premium Rouge is routinely $2000+ ONE WAY(!!!!!!) to YYZ. Regular Rouge is often $600 or more one way to YYZ. Or you can fly via YVR on AC if you want to pay through the nose, and spend 4 hours in the air (plus whatever layover time) to not get a mile East of where you started.
3. AC's so called sales almost never include YXE, because they don't need to. I am getting tired of seeing " that promo code isn't valid from your city of departure" messages.
3. AC's partners abandoned us too. We only have one seasonal flight to the USA anymore, Minneapolis from June to October on Westjet a few days a week. That flight is underwritten by our Provincial Govt with a minimum revenue guarantee. What a waste of taxpayers money. We used to have UA to Denver and Chicago but they now they fly their CRJ's to Williston North Dakota (pop 29,000) instead, which is great if you live in Estevan/Yorkton/Weyburn but absolutely no use to us at all.
3. Would someone like Porter ever consider coming here, they would sell out in seconds if they offered decent flights to Pearson. If only.

Rant over, but I have been flying out of YXE for almost 30 years and the service has never ever been this poor. Is there a city of this size in Canada with worse service? YQR doesn't count, not because of provincial rivalry but because they get treated the same.

YXEGrumpy

Changeup2000

Probably all those south Ontario cities other than Toronto, as well as Victoria?

YBang

Victoria isn't that bad right? You can only fly eastward

m.y

According to wikipedia, YHM, YKF, YXU, YQG CMAs have higher population than YXE, St Catherines and Oshawa don't have commercial airports. All 4 have fewer flights than YXE, a check of tomorrow's departures shows 9 flights from YHM, 8 from YKF, 9 from YXU, 5 from YQG. I counted 23 flights (excluding Rise Air) from YXE tomorrow. Although you can argue that YKF and YHM lose passengers to YYZ and DTW draws US and international passengers away from YQG.

Regional pilot shortage is hurting cities like YXE, there are not enough pilots to run 50 seat jet flights to YXE.

arf04

Indeed, YQR is identical to YXE for depressing air service. We didn’t get MSP, though, so you win! I miss the ORD, MSP, and DEN flights.


I agree that if PD came in here they’d have a decent shot at making it work.

YSC, though, is the worst mid-sized city in Canada for air service. With a greater metro population of 227,000 they have zero commercial flights.

Bohemian1

YXEGeordie - You have my sympathies. Back in the day (when I was based there), flights to YYZ, YUL YOW and points West were plentiful.

Now that I am based in YVR and come back only to see family, I feel lucky to still have nonstops to YXE with J service, even if it's a CR9 or 319/320. Here's hoping that those don't go away too.

ETHFlyer

For some godforsaken reason I was flying to YQR with regularity from YVR back in 2017. Service was actually really decent back then with multiple daily direct flights. I can't believe how quickly it has deteriorated.

billdokes

This is simple economics, nothing more, nothing less. AC is intended to be a profit making enterprise and has scarce resources, especially these days, when it comes to aircraft and crews. As such, they are going to deploy those scarce resources where they will generate the most return for the Corporation, apparently that's not YXE, unfortunate for those in YXE, but reality. It's also a function of supply/demand...if there was demand the supply would come, either in the form of more flights from AC or a competitor moving into the market, even if it's on a single city pair like YXE/YYC.

In many small markets, particularly in the US, cities pay subsidies to the airline(s) to maintain service and there is nothing keeping YXE from doing the same. While that might not seem right to use taxpayer $$ to pay a profit making enterprise for service, the city may deem for it's own economic well-being that's in appropriate use of funds to maintain or grow their tax base.

There's also nothing keeping you or anyone from starting "YXE Air" if you believe it's such a tremendously under-served market and fly all those routes that you used to enjoy 'back when'.

wjw

No real need for a subsidy on this market. It is generally well served for a market its size. 4 non stops daily to Toronto, plus another 4 day/week service with flair. Plus connecting flights with WS to Calgary that’s only an hour flight.

Seems like a risky market for Porter to enter given all the other flight options out. Flair starts at $89, so clearly added competition hasn’t changed AC’s pricing.

tracon

Sounds like the OP should start an airline with the frequency, destinations, service and prices he desires.

RatherBeInYOW

I love how the responses to a rant about AC service are "its economics" (no ...., really?) or "start your own airline" (super helpful). From people based in YYZ of course.

The reality is that if you live in cities not named YVR, YYZ or YUL your level of service from AC has gone way down since the pandemic. There are lots of reasons why (reduced fleet, lack of staff/crew, etc.) but that doesn't make it any better for people at the pointy end of it. I feel for the OP - rant away my fellow FTer.

YOWgary

If you live in Victoria or Guelph you at least have the *option* to drive to the regional hub to start your trip. Heck, from Victoria you can do it on public transit for about twenty bucks.

Saskatchewan’s in a weird and ugly spot right now for sure. I have a friend whose job involve(d) a lot of travel to and from Saskatoon, who’s had to re-work his team’s travel plans after months of being unable to use even a Lat flight pass due to how consistently flights are sold out.

But yeah, all the whiners should just scrape up an extra hundred mil and start an airline. /s

billdokes

I don't see a point here...to quote Barack Obama, "you can have your own opinions, but you don't get to have your own facts"...it IS economics, and AC is not obligated to do more than they are doing to serve any market. It's too bad that 'service from AC has gone way down' but there's a reason for that...if the demand was there the supply would be as well...it's not, and until it is you'll get what you get and I have no idea why you're getting upset. All of this ranting and raving about AC 'abandoning' certain markets, and 'well we used to have service to XXX, YYY, ZZZ...is interesting and amusing, but not productive.

Not sure why people choose to look down their nose at those who elect to live in YYZ, YVR and YUL...if you choose to live in Podunk you've accepted the air service that Podunk gets...all the want for more isn't going to bring it. I understand it's the centre of the universe for the people that live there, but that doesn't mean a profit orientated enterprise needs to service it when they can get a better return elsewhere, especially in times of scarcity of available resources. You might think your 1, 2, 3, 10, 50 flights a year matter but when flights are 100% full all the time, unless your overall city pair can generate a similar load factor and a similar revenue/cost/profit profile, guess what, it's not happening.

But sure, rant away...it makes for good reading.

RatherBeInYOW

Nice straw man. Is anyone claiming you are wrong?

And I don't live in Podunk, I live in YOW ... you know only the capital of the country with a 1.5M metro population - and way fewer flights than 2019. Is it economics, and is there nothing I can do about it? Of course. Do I have to shut up about it or move to YYZ? Nope.

billdokes

Well clearly you'd rather be in YOW so I don't expect that you will move to YYZ anytime soon, but choosing to live in YOW has certain benefits and drawbacks, just like anywhere...I don't like the traffic in YYZ, but I DO like that I can get anywhere in the world, anywhere I want, anytime I want conveniently. Having been to YOW hundreds of times, it is about as close to Podunk as it gets. It might be the capital of the country, but it's a sleepy, boring, government town, and again, if the demand was there, the supply would be as well.

You don't need to shut up about it, rant away, like I said, it makes for good reading, but all the ranting isn't going to change the facts, and it is the facts that drive decisions in profit orientated organizations...well until the government steps in with $$ or over-reaching regulation to try and add in-efficiency to an efficient market.

There is really nothing YOU can do about it, other than lobby your local/federal government to get involved in messing up that efficient market...or convincing 10's of thousands of YOW'ers to choose to fly more to the places you want to fly to on a consistent basis.