Future interior refurbishment programs?
 

Yes, I know the A330s have only just been reconfigured, but does anyone have a clue when AC will refresh interiors again? There are some product inconsistencies (for example, the 333 PY seats are much better than those on the 787/777s), the A320s are in desperate need of a refresh, and even the widebodies will need a more cutting edge J product pretty soon in order to remain competitive.

Since this question isn't really about refurbishments on the 330 fleet (where it was originally posted) I'm moving it to a new thread.

Adam Smith
AC Forum Co-Moderator

The inconsistencies in the widebody fleet are pretty minor - or will be, if they ever finish the 333 refurbishments.

AC depreciates cabin interiors over eight years, which suggests that's about their useful life. Then again, when other things delayed their plans, they ended up extending the lifespan of the XM interiors long beyond that.

The fact they're in the process of refurbishing the 333s to a similar look and feel to the 787/777 fleet suggests there aren't going to be any major changes soon.

The mainline 319s have all left the fleet, and the 320s have been following them out the door. So don't expect them to do anything with the 320s that are left.

If the 321s are part of the long-term fleet plan (and the cancellation of the 7M9 order suggests that's reasonably likely), they'll definitely need a refresh soon, which will probably mean something that looks a lot like the 7M8s and 223s.

Competitive with what? Polaris is just finally catching UA up to AC in terms of hard product. AC's current offering seems pretty in line with what WS and AA have. LH is still installing frigging 2-2-2 J layouts in brand new 359s, for crying out loud. BA is finally rolling out a modern J product that's not exactly a leap forward from what AC has.

EK and EY F are not the standard by which AC measures its J hard product.

The current trend with airlines is to rip out business class and replace with premium economy. Will be interesting to see what AC does here.

"Seats in the premium cabin occupy barely 10% more space than coach, whereas a business-class berth typically requires three times as much room. Deutsche Lufthansa AG says premium economy generates 33% more revenue per square foot than economy and 6% more than business—and is 40% more profitable than the latter because it’s cheaper to install. "
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...usiness-travel

Ron.

IMHO QR J Qsuites would be better than AC's J product.

AC already has fairly small J/F cabins compared to those carriers though.

Take a look at LH's 333s, for instance, since there's an easy direct comparison. They have 3 layouts - 8F 30J, 8F 42J, and 42J. On all of those aircraft, the J/F seating extends well past doors 2. AC has 32 J seats on the 333, all forward of doors 2.

AC also started bringing in PY earlier than a number of the carriers named in that article.

So you could argue, to some extent, that AC was ahead of the curve on this.

I'm not saying AC's hard product is the best. But you don't need the best product to secure a profitable share of the market, and AC has been heavily focused on profitability for a long time. The fairly recent 333 refurbishment suggests AC is comfortable with where it's at when it comes to hard product.

Wasn't getting into who's the best, profitability, market-share, etc. Was simply giving PoV that QR's J Qsuites which launched about 4.5yrs ago would be better than AC's J hard product based on your earlier comments/comparison on AC J hard product to UA, WS, AA, LH and BA. Some may eveb say QR's new Business Class Suite introduced on their 787s (I would rate lower than Qsuites) may even be better than AC's J hard product.

I think the higher priority should be having a survivable sub-cabin product on Rogue. The WB J seats are "good enough".

I wish Air Canada will come up with a premium economy seat or domestic J seat with movable armrests. Sometimes I find myself finding a row of empty seats at the back a night flight to lie down across instead of sitting upright in domestic J or premium Y

XM went essentially from 2007 to 2014... with DreamCabins starting 2014-ish... I found that XM cabins got beat up and tired a lot faster than the DreamCabin cabins... although AC got more new aircraft since 2014 so that may have something to do with it?
But even being on the low 800 FINs (basically the small lot of 788s), they don't seem as beat up/tired after 6/7 years like XM did... IMHO.

Have to agree with Adam Smith on this one.
AC doesn't need to go chasing tail with the Joneses, that's how you end up being EY.
And I would also be curious what will be done to extend the life of the 321s

mileageking, while I agree in principle of liking a door a la. DL One, QR Q-Suites, BA New Club World; don't forget having more bells and trinkets means there are more chances of the bells and trinkets broken.

Don't forget there's a dedicated thread to deflategate ;)
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...ng-flight.html


This all falls back on the airline on their Quality Control at delivery and material chosen.

Just be blessed the Dreamcabin has turned out to be a good investment. :)
With that said, I wouldn't mind stepping on a XM 333, its been ages :D

CX had the reverse problem :rolleyes:
77Ws are lasting good through 10 yrs, bloody thing is built like a tank
350s, yeesh, things breaking apart within 6 months of service

When cabin refurbishing goes wrong, ALOT of money go down the drain. :idea:

Jazz also has CR9s and E75s with IFE and J seats that need refreshes, assuming they're going to stick around.

They only need to look to their (otherwise inferior) southern counterpart for regional jet hard product ideas.

LH is starting to be a bit of a mess in J. They are adding 787's with a different J seat and they just announced the purchase of former Philippine Airlines A350's with a 3rd J seat type. If the 777X ever come online, LH will have 4 different types of J seats in their fleet.

AC has a very competitive J class hard product. As others have pointed out, minus the door, the seat is essentially the same as BA's new J seat. BA has a long way to go to get these seats on all of their aircraft. It seems unlikely that the J cabins will be refurbished anytime soon, especially in light of the A330's just being refurbished (and a bunch still to go).

The Rouge A321 refurbishment is likely a clue as to how the mainline A321's will be addressed when time, fleet planning, and CapEx allows. They may be around a while before they are redone. What is more interesting is at what point does AC pull the trigger on an LR/XLR order and whether those aircraft are equipped with a proper J seat or not.

I remember the 5 minutes UA had the Q400s with a J class cabin...but overall, their regional jets are very...basic