Forward lav in J on the 787 no longer for passengers?
May 24, 2021, 6:11 am
#1
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Forward lav in J on the 787 no longer for passengers?
Questions for the masses - is the forward lav in J on the 787 no longer for passengers? Just curious.
May 24, 2021, 9:00 am
#2
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May 24, 2021, 10:45 am
#4
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Excerpt from this thread:
RULES
There is a multitude of rules that beset the aviation business. Many of them are imposed by government and quasi-governmental regulatory agencies, and require us to do certain things, or not do certain things. Many of them require us to require you to do certain things, or not do certain things. The ones imposed by these agencies are generally related to safety and to bring some semblance of order to the chaos that characterizes our airspace. Others are intended to protect national security and such like. If you decline to act in compliance with these rules, there are other rules that empower us to do ungentlemanly things to you. So you are required to cooperate fully at all times.
Other rules are imposed by us. They are intended to accomplish a variety of objectives, most of which boil down to preservation of our profitability and facilitation of our operational convenience. We have absolute and unconditional discretion to decide to whom, when, where and how these rules are applied. This discretion need not be applied in the same manner at all times.
Some of these rules pertain to what we are obligated to do with your money after we have it, and you change your plans (recall that we can change anything, but if you change anything you will invariably pay more or forfeit what you’ve already paid). Others pertain to operational procedures such as checking in, checking baggage, not checking baggage, where and when your baggage must be stowed, where and when you sit, which lavatory you use and when you can use it, and so on. Many other rules pertain to what happens during and after IRROPS (see above). Again, there are rules that empower us to do further ungentlemanly things to you if you don’t comply, even though the impugned rule may have no valid authority or force of law.
There are a couple of important rules you should understand about the rest of our rules. The first rule is that we make the rules and you follow them. You may not, under any circumstances, make your own rules. Secondly, some of the rules are public knowledge through announcements or publication in various forms, and other rules may not be. We don’t always tell you about the rules in advance for several reasons. For example, you do not need to know our secrets related to upgrade priority or fare classes. We’ll tell you whether you get an upgrade in due course. Similarly, if you haven’t read the fine print when you bought your ticket, we will also tell you about the inflexibility of your fare class when you need to know. In other circumstances, for operational reasons we sometimes need to make up new rules as we go. Nevertheless, you are required to comply with whatever we deem is a rule at any particular moment. For example, we may need to make up a rule about where you stow your carry-on baggage when someone more important than you needs space to stow theirs.
It is also pertinent that not all rules apply equally to all people. We get to choose which rules apply to you, when they apply and under what circumstances. Just because a rule applies to you doesn’t necessarily mean that it will apply to another passenger in the same circumstances at the same time. For example, on or off duty employees, cabin crew, friends and relations of same are arbitrarily exempt from many rules at the discretion of other employees. However, the employees granting such exemptions must be on duty at the time.
The whole regimen is highly complicated and we therefore cannot possibly expect all employees to know all of the rules all of the time. If they can’t know them thoroughly, we recognize that you can’t be expected to know them either. For this reason we will conveniently tell you what the rules are when we need you to follow them, whereupon you are expected to follow them without question or hesitation.
Finally, it is essential for you to understand that for operational reasons we may change the rules at any time. However, you may not change the rules, ever.
Thank you for your cooperation.
RULES
There is a multitude of rules that beset the aviation business. Many of them are imposed by government and quasi-governmental regulatory agencies, and require us to do certain things, or not do certain things. Many of them require us to require you to do certain things, or not do certain things. The ones imposed by these agencies are generally related to safety and to bring some semblance of order to the chaos that characterizes our airspace. Others are intended to protect national security and such like. If you decline to act in compliance with these rules, there are other rules that empower us to do ungentlemanly things to you. So you are required to cooperate fully at all times.
Other rules are imposed by us. They are intended to accomplish a variety of objectives, most of which boil down to preservation of our profitability and facilitation of our operational convenience. We have absolute and unconditional discretion to decide to whom, when, where and how these rules are applied. This discretion need not be applied in the same manner at all times.
Some of these rules pertain to what we are obligated to do with your money after we have it, and you change your plans (recall that we can change anything, but if you change anything you will invariably pay more or forfeit what you’ve already paid). Others pertain to operational procedures such as checking in, checking baggage, not checking baggage, where and when your baggage must be stowed, where and when you sit, which lavatory you use and when you can use it, and so on. Many other rules pertain to what happens during and after IRROPS (see above). Again, there are rules that empower us to do further ungentlemanly things to you if you don’t comply, even though the impugned rule may have no valid authority or force of law.
There are a couple of important rules you should understand about the rest of our rules. The first rule is that we make the rules and you follow them. You may not, under any circumstances, make your own rules. Secondly, some of the rules are public knowledge through announcements or publication in various forms, and other rules may not be. We don’t always tell you about the rules in advance for several reasons. For example, you do not need to know our secrets related to upgrade priority or fare classes. We’ll tell you whether you get an upgrade in due course. Similarly, if you haven’t read the fine print when you bought your ticket, we will also tell you about the inflexibility of your fare class when you need to know. In other circumstances, for operational reasons we sometimes need to make up new rules as we go. Nevertheless, you are required to comply with whatever we deem is a rule at any particular moment. For example, we may need to make up a rule about where you stow your carry-on baggage when someone more important than you needs space to stow theirs.
It is also pertinent that not all rules apply equally to all people. We get to choose which rules apply to you, when they apply and under what circumstances. Just because a rule applies to you doesn’t necessarily mean that it will apply to another passenger in the same circumstances at the same time. For example, on or off duty employees, cabin crew, friends and relations of same are arbitrarily exempt from many rules at the discretion of other employees. However, the employees granting such exemptions must be on duty at the time.
The whole regimen is highly complicated and we therefore cannot possibly expect all employees to know all of the rules all of the time. If they can’t know them thoroughly, we recognize that you can’t be expected to know them either. For this reason we will conveniently tell you what the rules are when we need you to follow them, whereupon you are expected to follow them without question or hesitation.
Finally, it is essential for you to understand that for operational reasons we may change the rules at any time. However, you may not change the rules, ever.
Thank you for your cooperation.
May 24, 2021, 5:23 pm
#5
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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May 25, 2021, 1:30 am
#6
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@yyclady Did a cabin crew tell you this on a recent flight? Or are you asking based on an experience from last year? There was a brief period early in the COVID Times last year when forward-most lavs were off limits to pax on all flights, but that didn't last very long. It seems to have died a somewhat slow and inconsistent death through June/July (i.e. to @The Lev's point, some crews were still imposing the rule after AC had formally rescinded it). But I don't recall hearing that for a very long time.
May 25, 2021, 10:07 pm
#7
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Yes - this was from my flight from YYZ - DOH on Saturday. We were expressly told multiple times that the lavs for J were in the aft galley - I found this to be quite odd because on all of the other flights I have flown, we have not been told this. I do get that they don't want J passengers using the foward lav prior to take off as they are often setting up in the galley, getting ready, etc, however to be expresslly told that we were to use the back. . .
Perhaps you’re reading too much into this.
May 25, 2021, 10:24 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: AC75 MM
Posts: 959
I had this on a HKG-YVR flight 10 years ago. It was basically a rule imposed by the crew who wanted their own space up front and didn't want the J pass spoiling their work space. I recall service was also sub-par, but didn't make a complaint to AC, although I was tempted.
May 26, 2021, 12:41 am
#10
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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