Today's (31Jan19) disrupted flights from LGA to YYZ - Air Canada - what is going on?
Jan 31, 2019, 10:52 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
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Posts: 393
Today's (31Jan19) disrupted flights from LGA to YYZ - Air Canada - what is going on?
Ok - so I'm thankful that I'm not stuck in Chicago but......... here at La Guardia (NY)
Was due today on the 711 due away at 1320. (was the first of two consecutive cancellations) Rebooked on the 717 due away 1535 which was then delayed to 1655 and now cancelled. They are cancelled alternate flights and I'm now waiting for the third flight number of the day! My concert tonight in Toronto is now lost (first world issue I know), but I wonder how the logic of the folk in the A Ops Centre in Brampton works when moving these flights around causes such chaos (and now double chaos). YYZ is open for business (albeit cold) as is LGA where as I type has NO queue for the active runway. So it's not snow and both aircraft and airports can deal with this cold!!
Is it convenience for returning to schedule quickly unaware of the chaos and heartbreak these decisions cause! No wonder AC is joint last in punctuality.
Even American from LGA to YYA are all operating with less than 60 min delays.
Poor - really poor
Was due today on the 711 due away at 1320. (was the first of two consecutive cancellations) Rebooked on the 717 due away 1535 which was then delayed to 1655 and now cancelled. They are cancelled alternate flights and I'm now waiting for the third flight number of the day! My concert tonight in Toronto is now lost (first world issue I know), but I wonder how the logic of the folk in the A Ops Centre in Brampton works when moving these flights around causes such chaos (and now double chaos). YYZ is open for business (albeit cold) as is LGA where as I type has NO queue for the active runway. So it's not snow and both aircraft and airports can deal with this cold!!
Is it convenience for returning to schedule quickly unaware of the chaos and heartbreak these decisions cause! No wonder AC is joint last in punctuality.
Even American from LGA to YYA are all operating with less than 60 min delays.
Poor - really poor
Jan 31, 2019, 11:30 am
#2
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,363
Due to the cold temps YYZ is operating at a reduced arrival rate, so I'm assuming AC has needed to trim it's schedule. Short haul flights are always the first to get impacted. AC and WS would always be impacted the greatest given they operate the most flights. AA doesn't have the same volume of flights, so they not be impacted...hence why they are still operating.
https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx
https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx
Jan 31, 2019, 2:23 pm
#3
Join Date: May 2015
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Posts: 774
EF for 721 an 725 show:
and
respectively.
Code:
RMKS/DLYD DUE YYZ WEATHER/COLD TEMPERATURES
Code:
RMKS/WAS A320 NOW A319 ACCOUNT A3XX FLEET CONSTRAINTS CAUSED BY FIN 461 AND 464 AOG IN YYZ
Jan 31, 2019, 2:28 pm
#4
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Posts: 1,505
Jan 31, 2019, 2:29 pm
#5
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Jan 31, 2019, 2:30 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
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Posts: 4,569
Aircraft on ground (and unavailable to fly for some reason)
And since already answered, I'll add, probably technically inaccurate here as it isn't the aircraft to blame. The reason is more likely to be weather (as noted) or indirectly weather, ground or flight crew busy stuffing themselves with storm chips and not available to work, for example.
And since already answered, I'll add, probably technically inaccurate here as it isn't the aircraft to blame. The reason is more likely to be weather (as noted) or indirectly weather, ground or flight crew busy stuffing themselves with storm chips and not available to work, for example.
Jan 31, 2019, 3:59 pm
#8
Original Poster
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so here is the ending to my story though I'd like the thread to consider something relevant to these delays
My second flight - 717 was also cancelled as described earlier. I was twenty something on standby for the 715 which kept slipping back. When my re-booked flight came through it was for 1230 tomorrow - yep, 24 hours late
I was able to book on the 1959 departing AA flight, went to the gate for the delayed 1315 AA flight (an E175) and after the last PAX boarded asked the gate staff if I could go early with my new AA locater. No problem Sir, so I left at 1400 - 90 mins after my original departure time. AA for once came up trumps - otherwise I was consigned to a night in NY and a 1230 flight tomorrow (if I'm lucky)
Speak to the Air Canada rep in the lounge, as it's weather - they're not responsible. This get out clause seems open to mis-use! If the planes were tech, that is their fault. My original flight originated in Montreal (according to the app up until it was cancelled) and so if that aircraft was tech in Montreal or stuck there with weather - does it remain a legitimate excuse for a rotation later in the day from a) a different airport and b) a different number. I think too often (and this is the third time) where weather has been used for an excuse even though YYZ is open for business! Even when you need to up gauge to rescue folk, they down gauged today due to a lack of A320s!
With only four bases now in the county (YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL) - it's often a Montreal based crew doing the YYZ to LGA sectors. I'd imagine crews are in the wrong place, can't get into work etc etc - esp when they have to commute to work (the number of off duty / positioning staff who commute from YOW to YYZ appears high)
All of that said, a left click from someone in the Control Centre in Brampton consigns 150 PAX to be rebooked onto other flights. Another right click then consigned some of the same folk to a second cancelled and a "free night" in New York. I really have to question the "rules of engagement" at the Ops Centre where left clicking all over the aircraft diagrams, makes sense at a corporate level to get back on schedule and normal, but devastates the customers with the impact not even felt 350 miles away. There has to be a balance between providing a service of sorts, against the company schedule.
Meanwhile, around now - LGA will be hotting up as the flights continue to slip and more and more AC PAXs are treated as a line of data in another delayed or cancelled flight.
If anyone is reading this around 6pm at LGA - there is a seat on the AA 1959 departure. It cost me 280 bucks CAD and I'll get my AC flight money back on the flight I won't be using tomorrow at 1230.
I think in my five years (and weekly commutes to YOW or LGA, this is the most poor that AC have been. Cold it sure is (like the rest of the winter) but no active snow at either end, and really we're merely a name to shuffle around at AC's convenience!
My second flight - 717 was also cancelled as described earlier. I was twenty something on standby for the 715 which kept slipping back. When my re-booked flight came through it was for 1230 tomorrow - yep, 24 hours late
I was able to book on the 1959 departing AA flight, went to the gate for the delayed 1315 AA flight (an E175) and after the last PAX boarded asked the gate staff if I could go early with my new AA locater. No problem Sir, so I left at 1400 - 90 mins after my original departure time. AA for once came up trumps - otherwise I was consigned to a night in NY and a 1230 flight tomorrow (if I'm lucky)
Speak to the Air Canada rep in the lounge, as it's weather - they're not responsible. This get out clause seems open to mis-use! If the planes were tech, that is their fault. My original flight originated in Montreal (according to the app up until it was cancelled) and so if that aircraft was tech in Montreal or stuck there with weather - does it remain a legitimate excuse for a rotation later in the day from a) a different airport and b) a different number. I think too often (and this is the third time) where weather has been used for an excuse even though YYZ is open for business! Even when you need to up gauge to rescue folk, they down gauged today due to a lack of A320s!
With only four bases now in the county (YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL) - it's often a Montreal based crew doing the YYZ to LGA sectors. I'd imagine crews are in the wrong place, can't get into work etc etc - esp when they have to commute to work (the number of off duty / positioning staff who commute from YOW to YYZ appears high)
All of that said, a left click from someone in the Control Centre in Brampton consigns 150 PAX to be rebooked onto other flights. Another right click then consigned some of the same folk to a second cancelled and a "free night" in New York. I really have to question the "rules of engagement" at the Ops Centre where left clicking all over the aircraft diagrams, makes sense at a corporate level to get back on schedule and normal, but devastates the customers with the impact not even felt 350 miles away. There has to be a balance between providing a service of sorts, against the company schedule.
Meanwhile, around now - LGA will be hotting up as the flights continue to slip and more and more AC PAXs are treated as a line of data in another delayed or cancelled flight.
If anyone is reading this around 6pm at LGA - there is a seat on the AA 1959 departure. It cost me 280 bucks CAD and I'll get my AC flight money back on the flight I won't be using tomorrow at 1230.
I think in my five years (and weekly commutes to YOW or LGA, this is the most poor that AC have been. Cold it sure is (like the rest of the winter) but no active snow at either end, and really we're merely a name to shuffle around at AC's convenience!
Jan 31, 2019, 6:41 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,003
Speak to the Air Canada rep in the lounge, as it's weather - they're not responsible. This get out clause seems open to mis-use! If the planes were tech, that is their fault. My original flight originated in Montreal (according to the app up until it was cancelled) and so if that aircraft was tech in Montreal or stuck there with weather - does it remain a legitimate excuse for a rotation later in the day from a) a different airport and b) a different number.
This past summer I was on a delayed flight from YYZ. Upon arrival in YUL we were given new onward boarding passes and $30 each in meal vouchers.
The reason for the delay on the meal vouchers, "misconnect controllable."
The real reason for the delay, initial fin earlier in the day, diverted to alternate because of weather in YWG.
Resulting in our flight # having to wait for a fin from SEA.
In my case this sounded like a weather delay. Don't know if being on a paid J ticket made a difference.
Jan 31, 2019, 8:35 pm
#11
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Jan 31, 2019, 8:55 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
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Both, count' em, both CAN-DFW flights tomorrow cancelled, so both AC flights north cancelled too.
Im going to see how the other half lives in the middle seat of an AA 321 to BOS.
First world problems.
Im going to see how the other half lives in the middle seat of an AA 321 to BOS.
First world problems.
Feb 1, 2019, 7:18 am
#13
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
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Posts: 668
Umm, NAV Canada had a GDP in effect for YYZ due to weather. Almost went into a ground stop. So not sure why all the blame is at AC??? bolding mine
NAV CANADA ADVZY 007 CYYZ/CZY 01/31/2019 CDM PROPOSED GROUND DELAY PROGRAMMESSAGE:
CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 1516Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: UDP
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
ANTICIPATED CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
ANTICIPATED PROGRAM RATE: 36/36/36/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32
FLT INCL: ALL CNDN AND CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (MANUAL) CZW CZY ZAU ZLC ZTL ZDC ZNY ZJX ZFW ZOB ZDV ZBW
CZE ZKC ZME ZID CZM ZAB ZMP CZU ZHU
ANTICIPATED MAXIMUM DELAY: 277
ANTICIPATED AVERAGE DELAY: 133
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / WIND
COMMENTS: WIND AND TEMPERATURE ARE CAUSAL FACTORS.
USER UPDATES MUST BE RECEIVED BY: 31/1315Z EFFECTIVE TIME:
311518 - 311659SIGNATURE:
19/01/31 15:20
NAV CANADA ADVZY 008 CYYZ/CZY 01/31/2019 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAMMESSAGE:
CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 1551Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: UDP
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
PROGRAM RATE: 36/36/36/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32
FLT INCL: ALL CNDN AND CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (MANUAL) CZW CZY ZAN ZAU ZLC ZTL ZDC ZHN ZNY ZHU ZJX ZFW
ZOB ZDV ZBW CZE ZKC ZME ZID CZM ZAB CZQ ZMP ZSU CZU
MAXIMUM DELAY: 276
AVERAGE DELAY: 143
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / SNOW-ICE
COMMENTS: DUE COLD WEATHER RAMP AND GATE MANAGEMENT AND SNOW REMOVAL,
RWY 23/24L/24R ALTERNATING EFFECTIVE TIME:
311553 - 010659SIGNATURE:
19/01/31 15:55
NAV CANADA ADVZY 011 TMU EAST 01/31/2019 OPERATIONS FORECASTMESSAGE:
FORECAST PERIOD 2000Z-0400Z
CYYZ
ARRIVALS: 23/24L/24R / DEPARTURES: 23/24R
AAR: 32-36
DELAYS: GDP IN EFFECT. APREQS FROM CZY CZU.
REMARKS: GATE HOLDS INCREASING. PROBABLE GROUND STOP DUE GRIDLOCK.
NAV CANADA ADVZY 012 NOC 01/31/2019 CDN ANS OUTLOOKMESSAGE:
EVENT TIME: 31/2015 - 2300Z
.
.
ARR RWY DEP RWY AAR CONSTRAINTS
CYYZ 23/24R 24R/23 36 GATE HOLDS
NAV CANADA ADVZY 007 CYYZ/CZY 01/31/2019 CDM PROPOSED GROUND DELAY PROGRAMMESSAGE:
CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 1516Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: UDP
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
ANTICIPATED CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
ANTICIPATED PROGRAM RATE: 36/36/36/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32
FLT INCL: ALL CNDN AND CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (MANUAL) CZW CZY ZAU ZLC ZTL ZDC ZNY ZJX ZFW ZOB ZDV ZBW
CZE ZKC ZME ZID CZM ZAB ZMP CZU ZHU
ANTICIPATED MAXIMUM DELAY: 277
ANTICIPATED AVERAGE DELAY: 133
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / WIND
COMMENTS: WIND AND TEMPERATURE ARE CAUSAL FACTORS.
USER UPDATES MUST BE RECEIVED BY: 31/1315Z EFFECTIVE TIME:
311518 - 311659SIGNATURE:
19/01/31 15:20
NAV CANADA ADVZY 008 CYYZ/CZY 01/31/2019 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAMMESSAGE:
CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 1551Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: UDP
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 31/1800Z - 01/0559Z
PROGRAM RATE: 36/36/36/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32/32
FLT INCL: ALL CNDN AND CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (MANUAL) CZW CZY ZAN ZAU ZLC ZTL ZDC ZHN ZNY ZHU ZJX ZFW
ZOB ZDV ZBW CZE ZKC ZME ZID CZM ZAB CZQ ZMP ZSU CZU
MAXIMUM DELAY: 276
AVERAGE DELAY: 143
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / SNOW-ICE
COMMENTS: DUE COLD WEATHER RAMP AND GATE MANAGEMENT AND SNOW REMOVAL,
RWY 23/24L/24R ALTERNATING EFFECTIVE TIME:
311553 - 010659SIGNATURE:
19/01/31 15:55
NAV CANADA ADVZY 011 TMU EAST 01/31/2019 OPERATIONS FORECASTMESSAGE:
FORECAST PERIOD 2000Z-0400Z
CYYZ
ARRIVALS: 23/24L/24R / DEPARTURES: 23/24R
AAR: 32-36
DELAYS: GDP IN EFFECT. APREQS FROM CZY CZU.
REMARKS: GATE HOLDS INCREASING. PROBABLE GROUND STOP DUE GRIDLOCK.
NAV CANADA ADVZY 012 NOC 01/31/2019 CDN ANS OUTLOOKMESSAGE:
EVENT TIME: 31/2015 - 2300Z
.
.
ARR RWY DEP RWY AAR CONSTRAINTS
CYYZ 23/24R 24R/23 36 GATE HOLDS
Feb 1, 2019, 7:36 am
#15
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada's worst airport....YYJ
Programs: AC: E75K, Marriott :Titanium, National: EXEC ELITE
Posts: 596
And Torontoians wonder why the rest of the country laughs at them...
Clear sunny day, temps in the minus teens, still not even -30 with the wind chill, and it's Armageddon at YYZ. A colleague was scheduled to fly WJ back to YOW yesterday, and they told her she might get out this afternoon if she was lucky. Ended up taking the train from Union.
Meanwhile, YWG was -28, -42 wind chill yesterday morning, and no significant delays. I fully realize there is a huge volume discrepancy that makes YYZ a million times worse, but seriously, it is the worst airport in Canada, with the worst ramp ops. Another bold victory for unionized labour!
Clear sunny day, temps in the minus teens, still not even -30 with the wind chill, and it's Armageddon at YYZ. A colleague was scheduled to fly WJ back to YOW yesterday, and they told her she might get out this afternoon if she was lucky. Ended up taking the train from Union.
Meanwhile, YWG was -28, -42 wind chill yesterday morning, and no significant delays. I fully realize there is a huge volume discrepancy that makes YYZ a million times worse, but seriously, it is the worst airport in Canada, with the worst ramp ops. Another bold victory for unionized labour!