jc94

eigenvector

An acquaintance of mine had a very expensive violin on loan (a del Gesu). They told me that one of the stipulations of the owner's insurance policy was for it to be transported by hand by an authorized person at all times.

Obviously, a $5k guitar is no del Gesu. But the same principle applies: if it can't be replaced, don't put it in a situation where Air Canada is going to hand you a cheque for $1,500 and walk away.

RangerNS

Dave Carroll is going to get some revshare this week!

Same lesson as before.

If your stuff is critical and needed within 10 days of landing, or is worth more than $1500, do not check it as baggage.

Transpacificflyer

As a reminder to those lambasting the victims of these incidents that they should take the item on board, or pay extra to do so, please note;
- Sometimes they cannot bring the item on board due to space availability or issues during transit.
- Although "average" salaries of musicians in Canada are reported as approximately $50,000, the value is skewed by the presence of unionized members of orchestras who typically receive much higher salaries and who benefit from organized travel and baggage arrangements Other musicians will have much lower incomes from which they must pay their travel expenses as they are not necessarily fully compensated for travel and accommodation etc. In plain language, they do not have the financial means to pay for the additional seat. They travel to work and not everyone is compensated like Lil Yachty or 6ix9ine or Lil Uzi etc.

I get it, that it was not prudent to check the bag. However, there is a reasonable expectation that baggage will be handled with a degree of care. The damage sustained indicates a catastrophic event. We have all seen the recordings of idiot baggage handlers tossing bags, dropping bags and otherwise being careless. As such, I do have a measure of sympathy for the complainant.

It is somewhat annoying to read;
An Air Canada spokeswoman says the airline is looking into what could have caused the damage and has been in touch with Arsenault to ensure it has all the appropriate information regarding compensation.

I don't believe they are "looking" into the event. IMO, it's a BS statement. The event would not have made the news had the airline responded in a prompt and equitable manner. Air Canada has an issue with its baggage handling. It is the one area that hasn't been cleaned up yet. Worse is its customer service structure in respect to baggage issues. IMO, there is inadequate staffing at the customer facing level, combined with an intentional obfuscation of customer contact actions including lengthy waiting times to speak to a CSR.

musicmtl

I'll second TPF's statement about musicians' salaries. Many of us work very hard, for very little financial return. Most gigs barely cover travel expenses as it is. Purchasing a second seat isn't possible most of the time, and this isn't possible for all instruments either because of dimensions.

There is an expectation that fragile baggage will be treated with a certain amount of care. At the same time, it's vital for musicians to own flight cases that can withstand a certain amount of stress. The guitar case shown is fine for putting a guitar in the trunk of your car or carrying it around town, but it is not really a flight case.

RangerNS

That degree of care is a careful balancing act designed by Air Canada to accomplish schedule with tolerable failures up to (at current trading rates) about $2020 per PAX. No amount of hoping for better, wishing for better, or expecting better will change that.

As for working musicians not being able to afford an extra seat for their (poorly packed) guitars: So? The regulations on baggage, domestic or international are more "cartel" then "regulatory", but it is what it is.

Arsenault decided that the payday from a gig in Milwaukee was worth flying, but not buying a seat for his "best friend". Air Canada moves around boxes, not best friends, its the best friend of the guitar that entrusted it to an organization that considers it, at most, a $2020 widget that is allowed to take +5 days to arrive.

Transpacificflyer

The constructive criticism in respect to the use of an appropriate carrying case is valid. Goods must be suitably packed for the journey.
The other criticism in respect to the expected safe carriage of baggage is not. Why? Because the courts have said so.

However, in this SPECIFIC incident, a more robust case would not have changed the outcome. The bag was crushed. I disagree with the cause of damage though. I don't think the damage is consistent with a piercing by a forklift as was claimed. The damage looks to be more of an excess weight load or a sustained pressure event such as it being wedged between two objects. I suggest that the characteristics of this SPECIFIC event be considered and that the discussion not meander off into general events. Deal with the facts of the case, look at the damage itself. The guitar case, while certainly not reinforced , isn't that much different than many other bags transported. Had that been a standard bag,filled with typical executive clothing, the bag would have been crushed and contents lost. Gone might have been a suitat $2500, or shirts at $150, or shoes at $500. Would we be deriding the passenger for dressing in such clothes? What if they were a worker's tools? Not everyone gets by with sandals, white socks, hoodie and sweatpants.

eigenvector

I agree that every passenger has a right to expect a reasonable amount of care from Air Canada or any other carrier in handling their baggage.

However, the mere fact that something was broken or dropped doesn't mean that the carrier acted unreasonably. It would be unreasonable, I think, to suggest that an airline has to never damage any bag, ever in order to provide a "reasonable" level of service. There isn't a warehouse or distribution center on Earth where stuff doesn't get occasionally broken. If you're not willing for your bag to be part of the 0.01% that does get damaged because - for instance - it contains an irreplaceable object or is worth significantly more than $1,500 and you haven't insured the additional value, I don't think the airline needs to have anything to say to you besides "don't fly".

KenHamer

It is "treated with certain amount of care."

None is a "certain" amount.

skybluesea

Absolutely right, we routinely get news stories of musical instruments being damaged enroute - plenty of other items get damaged too but we don't hear about them? Are musicians just good at promoting their circumstances more than other non-performers?

and what does the profession of the traveler have anything to do with all this...damage is damage, and lack of insurance is lack of insurance.

btw...Why do hard-working musicians somehow deserve more sympathy than hard working students flying off to university about now, and what about seniors who also worked hard all their lives - both may have low incomes too.

All these travelers also get their stuff damaged too, and a $500 item for a student can be pretty significant loss if not addressed fully by AC

RangerNS

I would agree that it likely wasn't a forklift. Granting I e never been inside the baggage room, nothing on the apron is anywhere near a forklift.

Maybe dress shoes could be crushed beyond serviceability. But even $2000 suits can be ironed.

What kind of worker? You might be able to crush a laptop. But industrial tools are either inherently robust (try crushing a hammer) or actually packed suitably. Pelican will happily sell robust cases to peope who wish to protect their valuable and are critical too then.

That gutair case is little more than thin vinyl glued to cardboard. It isn't capable of handling 4 or 5 50lbs bags stacked on top of it, or the forces of being tossed around, let alone the forces of a 50# bag being dropped on it.

ex-egll

Not sure buying a seat for an instrument is the safest solution. My son-in-law had built a guitar for a client and was delivering it to YHZ. He bought the seat next to him for the guitar and got nicely settled in when someone arrived and asked him to remove the guitar as it was in his seat! Long story short, human won over guitar, guitar put in front closet and a battle with AC to get a refund which took 8 weeks.

Transpacificflyer

You are incorrect.
Bags can be damaged and the contents scattered and lost. You make the false assumption that items lost from a bag will be reuinted with the owner. One cannot iron a linen or cashmere or silk suit that is left with tire marks or is ripped, and call it as good as before. This is not an issue exclusive to Air Canada.

You persist in blaming the victim because you deem the guitar case inadequate. Fine. Air Canada had the right to deny the transport of that item, but did not. The acceptance of the item for carriage without a waiver or caution attaches a measure of liability.

You claim the construction quality is inadequate. Fine. Are you oblivious to the fact that much of the personal baggage transported by airlines in Canada is of cheap quality churned out by factories in China and sold by the Canadian Tires and Walmarts of this world for $49.97? For example; https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/canada-.../6000023805684
The item illustrated is of no better quality, yet hundreds of thousands of travelers fly Rouge and Air Canada routes with bags of similar quality. Are they to blame too if the bag suffers a catastrophic damage event? My expensive bag was crushed due to overloading and the pull arm bent out of shape. That was a $500+ bag which I purchased based upon recommendations here in Flyertalk. Should I be suing everyone on the luggage thread for their poor advice?

I draw your attention to Air Canada's bag drop events like this one;
I also draw your attention to the Air Canada promotional item that shows bags transported in open trolleys and unsecured to those trolleys. A bump at speed can dislodge a bag. Bags tossed on a loading belt can shift and fall off or become wedged. Not even the best constructed bag can protect against a catastrophic crushing event such as a vehicle impact or tipping of a trolley or crushing between trolley and motor unit.
The passenger is not under any obligation to accept the likelihood of damaged baggage. Rather, the onus is on the airline to operate in a prudent manner. That is why the airlines are legally liable for damaged baggage.

drvannostren

Hard to tell what happened here.

As a ramp handler, I can say unless this was travelling as cargo (which there's no reason to based on size/weight) then there's no reason for a forklift to be anywhere near it. The only thing we'd use a forklift for is if the baggage can fell off the carrier and onto the ground, in which case the guitar would've had to have been at the BOTTOM of the can (which is possible, but rare) and that the bag can was also pierced (can happen, but rare). So this one is a bit of a mystery to me. Insurance on the part of the passenger is really the only thing I'd suggest that might not have been said. As a ramp handler I hate when people take guitars on board then have them as gate deliveries. Gate deliveries should be reserved for items that you require to reach the carousel...wheelchair, scooter, stroller, etc. I'm pretty confident in all my years I've never broken a guitar, but I also think it's a bit much to call any object your "best friend".

mellon

hey thanks for the update!