Not permitted to fly - BAN from airline!
Aug 15, 2018, 10:04 pm
#196
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: UA
Posts: 444
There are some wild interpretations of the events going on here. This was a much less of an event then some are perceiving. So much so that both my husband and myself were completely blindsided by not being allowed to check into our flight. My husband told me exactly what happened after it occurred, and to be honest I had 2 children to deal with I didn't even care what he said and neither of us thought too much of it until the ticket cancellation came into place. Customer service interactions are not always pleasant and it's not unheard of to loose one's temper especially when you are treated sub-human. Air Canada is not a charity, while it's nice that they get you from point a to point b alive there should be some expectation for decency and customer appreciation.
This all being said, what concerns me is that there are of course measures in place to protect employees from abuse or harm and the same for passengers as there should be. Offensive language while offensive did not in this case pose a threat to other passengers or AC employees. Pulling out a ban or even a cancellation of our tickets was quite a retaliation measure by the agent. Unpleasant exchanges are frequent when dealing with stressful customer service issues as this was and if employees think they can pull out a ban or the like whenever it happens seems like an abuse of power.
To clarify, we arrived to the airport at exactly cut off time, maybe got to the line a few minutes after BUT got to the desk 20 minutes after since the line moved slowly and nobody came to get us as the check in agent claimed.
This all being said, what concerns me is that there are of course measures in place to protect employees from abuse or harm and the same for passengers as there should be. Offensive language while offensive did not in this case pose a threat to other passengers or AC employees. Pulling out a ban or even a cancellation of our tickets was quite a retaliation measure by the agent. Unpleasant exchanges are frequent when dealing with stressful customer service issues as this was and if employees think they can pull out a ban or the like whenever it happens seems like an abuse of power.
To clarify, we arrived to the airport at exactly cut off time, maybe got to the line a few minutes after BUT got to the desk 20 minutes after since the line moved slowly and nobody came to get us as the check in agent claimed.
So you stepped into the airport at 60 minutes prior to check in which is the deadline to or from the US.
Your post #51 claims:
“Despite the fact that our flight was 3 hours delayed, we did not make the cut off for check in because we arrived at the desk 5 minutes after cut off “
So now you admit that it was 20 minutes but you earlier claimed the GA lied about 20 minutes — again post 51
“the GA did not send a call out to the line as she claims she did and lied saying we arrived 20 minutes late. She later opened up check in for other passengers and lied about it to my husband when he confronted her about it. Hence the altercation.”
You straightout called the GA a liar yet now you verify what the GA claimed.
I hope you undertsand why there are concerns about the inconsistencies, evasiveness, and contradictions in the narrative.
Now about the ban— that last verification comes at check-in; the reservation system does not have that info — this is from a past case, where someone who had been banned made a reservation and was turned down at check in (Bruno Leduc against Air Canada).
How long ago did this happen?
Do you actually want to fly Air Canada? If so I have some recommendations, which would involve writing, apologizing and assuring this would not happen again — and your husband would have to do it.
Consider how your version of events is being received here, how will Air Canada take it?
Last edited by arttravel; Aug 15, 2018 at 10:36 pm
Aug 15, 2018, 10:15 pm
#197
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
Folks, why will OP not tell us date, route and airport?
is it because all this appears to fabricated and exposing these flight details we will learn exactly what happened with the supposed flight cancellation, delay whatever.
come clean OP, I went from empathy this morning to being taken as a fool.
your changing timelines and reference to sub-human - we’ll back up your assertions with FACTS we can verify!!!
is it because all this appears to fabricated and exposing these flight details we will learn exactly what happened with the supposed flight cancellation, delay whatever.
come clean OP, I went from empathy this morning to being taken as a fool.
your changing timelines and reference to sub-human - we’ll back up your assertions with FACTS we can verify!!!
Aug 15, 2018, 10:34 pm
#198
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
I don't think the location is relevant other than that they were contracted employees in the US. There are only 2 things I care about at this point and it is getting our money back and IF we are banned from flying AC trying to get that reversed. I still have nothing from the airline explaining to me what happened. Nobody at the airport at the time they refused us at check in (the 2nd day) could give me details but the check in agent did use the word "banned". We had confirmed tickets prior to arriving at the airport so I'm assuming the agent would have filed a complaint that made its way through the system by check in?
There was no intention of leaving out information, it's a complicated story as you can see and it's hard to tell what info is important and what is not.
There was no intention of leaving out information, it's a complicated story as you can see and it's hard to tell what info is important and what is not.
For refund:
Date and flight number of the flight you originally booked, as well as the flight number you were re-booked on for later that day, and the flight you were re-booked on for the next day. With that information people can check what flights were cancelled, delayed, etc. and the reasons. Regardless of what happened up to the altercation, there may be grounds for refund due to any flight cancellations/delays. Also, being on a flight from the USA there may be some US regulations that specify compensation available that might not be available to passengers flying out of Canada.
However, you're going to have an uphill battle here. By your own admission you were late checking in as you weren't even in the line by the check-in time.
Regarding ban:
Not much people here can help you with until you get the letter from AC and are informed if the ban is just for your husband, or all passengers who were on the flight, but one of the contributing factors to this situation was that the agent(s) lied to you and mislead you. Please advise as to how the agent mislead you, not that it excuses your husband's actions.
Here are some facts:
- After some arduous airport issues and complete blatant misleading lies from employees my husband called this particular gate agent out for misleading us. My husband alone addressed her and they got into a heated argument in which he used a curse word towards her.
I'm hoping to get some help here, I am extremely troubled and offended by what I think was prejudice against us at the airport.
There was a particular gate agent who just seemed to not like us at the airport yesterday from the moment we checked in. There is no explaining it other than prejudice of some kind but who knows. We had issues from the moment we checked in,..
There was a particular gate agent who just seemed to not like us at the airport yesterday from the moment we checked in. There is no explaining it other than prejudice of some kind but who knows. We had issues from the moment we checked in,..
To answer a few questions:
- we were travelling as a family with small children, from the moment we arrived to check in the gate agent in question was rude to us, rude and intolerant to my very young children (one of whom has a developmental delay) and just seemed to have complete intolerance for us as humans. She fabricated a lie and then stuck to it accusing us of arriving later than we did for check in. I have proof and any security footage will show that as well
- ...
- I'm asking for advice here, if you think we are terrible people so be it. This woman had it out for us for whatever reason and obviously took it upon herself to make our lives miserable. What my husband did was wrong but he was in no way whatsoever a harm to anyone and for that reason something does not add up here in what happened.
Aug 15, 2018, 10:44 pm
#199
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YSB & YAM, Northern Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG Gold Elite, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 1,100
Absolutely agree; the whole story is stating to look like a load of Blarney!
Folks, why will OP not tell us the date, route and airport?
Is it because all this appears to be fabricated and exposing these flight details we will learn exactly what happened with the supposed flight cancellation, delay whatever.
Come clean OP, I went from empathy this morning to being taken as a fool.
Your changing timelines and reference to sub-human - we’ll back up your assertions with FACTS we can verify!!!
Is it because all this appears to be fabricated and exposing these flight details we will learn exactly what happened with the supposed flight cancellation, delay whatever.
Come clean OP, I went from empathy this morning to being taken as a fool.
Your changing timelines and reference to sub-human - we’ll back up your assertions with FACTS we can verify!!!
We have now managed to squeeze out a few previously unknown details which she has intentionally or unintentionally revealed.
1: We now know that this alleged series of events occurred at an undisclosed airport in the United States.
2: We also know as per the OP's specific statement that the employees she and her husband dealt with were NOT AC EMPLOYEES but unspecified contract agents.
3: We are now left wondering exactly who and in what position OPs husband had an alleged conflict with.
4: Given that all this occurred in the U.S. (where conditions always seem to us Canadians to be far more stringent and less tolerant of abuse), I think the OP should actually be glad that there was no arrest for disruptve behaviour!
5: Folks, I don't know why we're even still bothering with this. It was certainly intriguing at first, but now????
6: Personally, I'd love to be a lawyer questioning the OP on a witness stand. Imagine a judge's reaction when a witness says that she will only answer a question if she decides it is relative.
Aug 15, 2018, 10:54 pm
#200
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
Aug 15, 2018, 11:14 pm
#201
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
can we copyright “Airport Bloopers” where folks tell their wacky stories and then the CCTV is played on what really happened. I’m sure as long as airlines got a cut, or at least some funds went back to airports to reduce security costs, AC might participate.
OP, you have received good advice so far, but if you want great advice, and I must say even with all my experience I learn something on FT everyday, then stop the games, or just go away.
OP, you have received good advice so far, but if you want great advice, and I must say even with all my experience I learn something on FT everyday, then stop the games, or just go away.
Last edited by skybluesea; Aug 16, 2018 at 5:47 am
Aug 16, 2018, 1:54 am
#203
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: HK
Programs: Qantas (Lifetime Gold), PAL (Elite), British Airways (now sadly blue), Cathay MPO DM
Posts: 647
For those who have written constructive comments, thank you.
There have been many incorrect assumptions made of me/us and I will clarify a few points here.
First and foremost the point of my post was to see if this has happened to others and to see what their experience has been.
It is abundantly clear to myself, my husband and my family that swearing at anyone is unacceptable which I pointed out in my original post. There is no point in laboring that it is wrong, we know that and it is not something I have ever seen my husband to do to anyone in the past and it's in-excusable nonetheless. I could bring endless character witnesses to trial who would vouch for the fact that my husband is a very even tempered quiet person.
To answer a few questions:
I don't need to waste my time giving AC bad PR they do that enough themselves! They have a monopoly so what do I care? We don't plan to ever fly with them again if we can help it but they have a monopoly on travel in Canada so our hands are tied if we want to visit outside of main cities, so for that reason I will have to resolve this via legal means or whatever else.
There have been many incorrect assumptions made of me/us and I will clarify a few points here.
First and foremost the point of my post was to see if this has happened to others and to see what their experience has been.
It is abundantly clear to myself, my husband and my family that swearing at anyone is unacceptable which I pointed out in my original post. There is no point in laboring that it is wrong, we know that and it is not something I have ever seen my husband to do to anyone in the past and it's in-excusable nonetheless. I could bring endless character witnesses to trial who would vouch for the fact that my husband is a very even tempered quiet person.
To answer a few questions:
- we were travelling as a family with small children, from the moment we arrived to check in the gate agent in question was rude to us, rude and intolerant to my very young children (one of whom has a developmental delay) and just seemed to have complete intolerance for us as humans. She fabricated a lie and then stuck to it accusing us of arriving later than we did for check in. I have proof and any security footage will show that as well
- I was not with my husband at the time of the incident, I was tending to the children, it occurred after having spent 5 hours in the airport to find out that the next available flight was the following morning
- There were weather delays involved in our travel but that had nothing to do with the incident, it was relating to check in
- We ended up driving 10 hours to our destination - with 2 children that had woken up at 4am 2 mornings in a row for a flight we never got to take. This was not what we wanted to say the least. We could not afford the price for multiple last minute tickets.
- Despite the fact that our flight was 3 hours delayed, we did not make the cut off for check in because we arrived at the desk 5 minutes after cut off - the GA did not send a call out to the line as she claims she did and lied saying we arrived 20 minutes late. She later opened up check in for other passengers and lied about it to my husband when he confronted her about it. Hence the altercation.
- I'm asking for advice here, if you think we are terrible people so be it. This woman had it out for us for whatever reason and obviously took it upon herself to make our lives miserable. What my husband did was wrong but he was in no way whatsoever a harm to anyone and for that reason something does not add up here in what happened.
I don't need to waste my time giving AC bad PR they do that enough themselves! They have a monopoly so what do I care? We don't plan to ever fly with them again if we can help it but they have a monopoly on travel in Canada so our hands are tied if we want to visit outside of main cities, so for that reason I will have to resolve this via legal means or whatever else.
Good luck with your legal battle. You will need it. Airlines are all powerful (and monopoly airlines worse). I hope you win.
Aug 16, 2018, 5:15 am
#204
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
There are some wild interpretations of the events going on here. This was a much less of an event then some are perceiving. So much so that both my husband and myself were completely blindsided by not being allowed to check into our flight. My husband told me exactly what happened after it occurred, and to be honest I had 2 children to deal with I didn't even care what he said and neither of us thought too much of it until the ticket cancellation came into place. Customer service interactions are not always pleasant and it's not unheard of to loose one's temper especially when you are treated sub-human. Air Canada is not a charity, while it's nice that they get you from point a to point b alive there should be some expectation for decency and customer appreciation.
This all being said, what concerns me is that there are of course measures in place to protect employees from abuse or harm and the same for passengers as there should be. Offensive language while offensive did not in this case pose a threat to other passengers or AC employees. Pulling out a ban or even a cancellation of our tickets was quite a retaliation measure by the agent. Unpleasant exchanges are frequent when dealing with stressful customer service issues as this was and if employees think they can pull out a ban or the like whenever it happens seems like an abuse of power.
To clarify, we arrived to the airport at exactly cut off time, maybe got to the line a few minutes after BUT got to the desk 20 minutes after since the line moved slowly and nobody came to get us as the check in agent claimed.
This all being said, what concerns me is that there are of course measures in place to protect employees from abuse or harm and the same for passengers as there should be. Offensive language while offensive did not in this case pose a threat to other passengers or AC employees. Pulling out a ban or even a cancellation of our tickets was quite a retaliation measure by the agent. Unpleasant exchanges are frequent when dealing with stressful customer service issues as this was and if employees think they can pull out a ban or the like whenever it happens seems like an abuse of power.
To clarify, we arrived to the airport at exactly cut off time, maybe got to the line a few minutes after BUT got to the desk 20 minutes after since the line moved slowly and nobody came to get us as the check in agent claimed.
You should get a refund. Were it up to me I couldn't get it to you fast enough.
Aug 16, 2018, 6:02 am
#205
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
And if in this case AC was willing to move them to later flight, without charge, well AC staff may get in trouble for going this far if OP complains too loud. Have had my share of non-engaged check-in agents, including one in 2008 who too said was NOT paid enough for stress of dealing with an IRROPS, but by and large the language being used by OPS may very well be obfuscation.
but of course we don’t even know something simple as the booking code or pretty much any other RELEVANT detail so we can help...so sad
Last edited by skybluesea; Aug 16, 2018 at 6:52 am
Aug 16, 2018, 6:32 am
#206
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YSB & YAM, Northern Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG Gold Elite, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 1,100
Actually FAIRHSA, you really need to read all 200+ posts - again!
I feel for you. Not just for this but the reaction of the other FT members here. But that's because I too have a short temper, and a complete inability to deal with being treated unfairly or lied to. Plus I've also had experiences where I did absolutely NOTHING wrong (not even getting into an argument!) and have still been treated like .... by airline staff (while flying paid business class). So I will just comment to you what I try really hard to tell myself whenever in this situation: Grit your teeth, smile and remember that they are badly paid, uneducated .......s and you cannot expect anything better. You have a child with developmental issues? Well, just imagine all airline staff as one of those and treat them accordingly. Smile, speak slowly, use simple concepts and if you fail, go and find a different member of staff who might tell you something entirely different! Good luck with your legal battle. You will need it. Airlines are all powerful (and monopoly airlines worse). I hope you win.
What we do now know is that OP and family were departing from a U.S. airport (location of which she claims is irrelevant) on a flight (number and destination which she also claims is irrelevant!) and in fact was not even dealing with AC staff but unidentified contract employees at the unknown U.S. airport.
She seems to have actually made up the BAN which she claims was imposed on her family simply because they were no-shows for their initial flight and had their tickets cancelled. Depending on the tickets involved she might have had to pay a change fee to travel on a later or next day flight.
The whole check-in situation is a load of nonsense since they actually were just arriving in the airport at the flight cut-off time. Anyone with even a modicum of travel experience know that they are required to have completed check-in formalities by the cut-off time and arrive at the airport in sufficient time for this.
There can be little excuse for not arriving at the airport in time to complete formalities.
Arrive on time; you fly!
Arrive late; you probably don't fly - and if you fly it's a matter of when you can be accommodated, and four seats is not so easy, especially if they must be together!
Aug 16, 2018, 7:09 am
#207
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Seems like things are going downhill with this post. I appreciate those of you who made useful and supportive comments.
There are a lot of questions being asked and when I do answer the absolute worst is assumed and for that it's not worth giving you details so that you can pick them apart because I didn't write an essay to explain each point. I know what happened and I know right from wrong. If I'm wasting YOUR time then simply do not respond or follow this thread.
The many details leading up to what happened are inconsequential to the ultimate fact of the matter which is: we were not permitted to check into our flight. Until I have more answers from AC customer service I cannot provide more info. I would like my money back and IF we are banned I would like to reverse it. I'm sure I can manage most of my life without ever taking AC again (gladly) but I do have intentions of traveling through the maritimes and smaller towns in BC that would probably require AC travel.
At this point until I have further information I have nothing further to add. At each juncture when I have revealed more information (which was not intentionally done just I simply don't have time to spend on my computer) it has backfired more than it has been helpful so in effort to maintain privacy and sanity this will be it! If anyone has a helpful idea in effort to resolve the above listed goals please do share.
Thanks.
There are a lot of questions being asked and when I do answer the absolute worst is assumed and for that it's not worth giving you details so that you can pick them apart because I didn't write an essay to explain each point. I know what happened and I know right from wrong. If I'm wasting YOUR time then simply do not respond or follow this thread.
The many details leading up to what happened are inconsequential to the ultimate fact of the matter which is: we were not permitted to check into our flight. Until I have more answers from AC customer service I cannot provide more info. I would like my money back and IF we are banned I would like to reverse it. I'm sure I can manage most of my life without ever taking AC again (gladly) but I do have intentions of traveling through the maritimes and smaller towns in BC that would probably require AC travel.
At this point until I have further information I have nothing further to add. At each juncture when I have revealed more information (which was not intentionally done just I simply don't have time to spend on my computer) it has backfired more than it has been helpful so in effort to maintain privacy and sanity this will be it! If anyone has a helpful idea in effort to resolve the above listed goals please do share.
Thanks.
Aug 16, 2018, 7:26 am
#208
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,976
Well, Mnyflyer... as I read it, you admitted to be late for check-in. That's it, the root cause. PERIOD.
It is not the duty of the check-in agent to make sure you can skip the line to be checked-in on time. It is your duty to be at the airport well in time for check-in. With web/mobile check-ins nowadays, there is not really an good excuse to miss the cutoff.
That the agent continued to check-in other people... you can't even know if they were on the same flight or e.g. just wanted to drop a bag.
In fact, that the agent helped you to get put on standby was more than could asked for. In principle, the ticket was voided as you did not show up on time.
So, to your points:
If the ticket was cancelled because you were a no-show at check-in you can ask for the refund according to the fare rules. As it probably was a cheaper non-refundable ticket you will only get back some of the taxes and airport fees. Look up the fare conditions.
For the ban, contact AC customer services. Ask them if there is a ban for you and your family and ask them what it would take to get it lifted.
It is not the duty of the check-in agent to make sure you can skip the line to be checked-in on time. It is your duty to be at the airport well in time for check-in. With web/mobile check-ins nowadays, there is not really an good excuse to miss the cutoff.
That the agent continued to check-in other people... you can't even know if they were on the same flight or e.g. just wanted to drop a bag.
In fact, that the agent helped you to get put on standby was more than could asked for. In principle, the ticket was voided as you did not show up on time.
So, to your points:
If the ticket was cancelled because you were a no-show at check-in you can ask for the refund according to the fare rules. As it probably was a cheaper non-refundable ticket you will only get back some of the taxes and airport fees. Look up the fare conditions.
For the ban, contact AC customer services. Ask them if there is a ban for you and your family and ask them what it would take to get it lifted.
Aug 16, 2018, 7:27 am
#209
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
When the individual complaining asks for help and advice and then refuses to provide simple information such as the date and the exact route, one becomes suspicious. There are people here who have, through subscriptions and simple knowledge, the ability to find out a lot of information which may help (or hurt) OP's cause. But, none of it can be found through a crystal ball.
Aug 16, 2018, 7:56 am
#210
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,363
Seems like things are going downhill with this post. I appreciate those of you who made useful and supportive comments.
There are a lot of questions being asked and when I do answer the absolute worst is assumed and for that it's not worth giving you details so that you can pick them apart because I didn't write an essay to explain each point. I know what happened and I know right from wrong. If I'm wasting YOUR time then simply do not respond or follow this thread.
The many details leading up to what happened are inconsequential to the ultimate fact of the matter which is: we were not permitted to check into our flight. Until I have more answers from AC customer service I cannot provide more info. I would like my money back and IF we are banned I would like to reverse it. I'm sure I can manage most of my life without ever taking AC again (gladly) but I do have intentions of traveling through the maritimes and smaller towns in BC that would probably require AC travel.
At this point until I have further information I have nothing further to add. At each juncture when I have revealed more information (which was not intentionally done just I simply don't have time to spend on my computer) it has backfired more than it has been helpful so in effort to maintain privacy and sanity this will be it! If anyone has a helpful idea in effort to resolve the above listed goals please do share.
Thanks.
There are a lot of questions being asked and when I do answer the absolute worst is assumed and for that it's not worth giving you details so that you can pick them apart because I didn't write an essay to explain each point. I know what happened and I know right from wrong. If I'm wasting YOUR time then simply do not respond or follow this thread.
The many details leading up to what happened are inconsequential to the ultimate fact of the matter which is: we were not permitted to check into our flight. Until I have more answers from AC customer service I cannot provide more info. I would like my money back and IF we are banned I would like to reverse it. I'm sure I can manage most of my life without ever taking AC again (gladly) but I do have intentions of traveling through the maritimes and smaller towns in BC that would probably require AC travel.
At this point until I have further information I have nothing further to add. At each juncture when I have revealed more information (which was not intentionally done just I simply don't have time to spend on my computer) it has backfired more than it has been helpful so in effort to maintain privacy and sanity this will be it! If anyone has a helpful idea in effort to resolve the above listed goals please do share.
Thanks.
You've had multiple suggestions on how to proceed with this, so I'm really not clear what other 'helpful ideas' you're looking for. The fact that you haven't even bothered to initiate a discussion with the airline but rather seek out anonymous advice on an internet forum seems to me this isn't a priority for you.
Originally Posted by Mnyclfyer
Offensive language while offensive did not in this case pose a threat to other passengers or AC employees.