IrrOp: Credit where it's due
Jul 4, 2018, 6:22 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: YQR
Programs: AC*E35 and decreasing
Posts: 664
Jul 4, 2018, 8:06 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
No, we were not informed; nor made to sign a waiver. I have to say, though, that a google search on "Air Canada flight delay rights" quickly points to this page, on AC's site, that contains all relevant information.
A quick Google search turns up this, which would seem to describe the carrier's obligations:
As a matter of course, a printed or electronic notice informing you of your EU air passenger rights must be clearly displayed at the airport check-in desk. This information must also be shown at check-in kiosks in the airport and on-line. If you were denied boarding, your flight was cancelled, you experienced a delay of more than 2 hours at departure or you arrive with a long delay at your final destination, the operating air carrier must give you a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance.
Jul 4, 2018, 8:30 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
I had thought, but could quite be totally wrong, that one of the responsibilities of the carrier in this case is to make sure passengers are aware they have rights under EC261/2004. I don't believe they have to actually provide forms, but they at least have to have a sign and/or announcement to that effect.
A quick Google search turns up this, which would seem to describe the carrier's obligations:
I'm not what, if any, penalty would apply to carriers who do not inform the relevant pax however.
A quick Google search turns up this, which would seem to describe the carrier's obligations:
I'm not what, if any, penalty would apply to carriers who do not inform the relevant pax however.
While 261 is good, the holes around a) what actually constitutes exceptional circumstances and b) the timeliness in which the airline should pay are truly shocking.
Jul 5, 2018, 6:46 am
#20
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
With respect to being informed, not only does signage need to be posted at "check-in", but
An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling a flight shall provide each passenger affected with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passenger affected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalent notice. The contact details of the national designated body referred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger in written form.
With respect to reporting infringement and punishment for failure to notify pax of rights by written notice,
Without prejudice to Article 12, each passenger may complain to any body designated under paragraph 1, or to any other competent body designated by a Member State, about an alleged infringement of this Regulation at any airport situated on the territory of a Member State or concerning any flight from a third country to an airport situated on that territory.
And
The sanctions laid down by Member States for infringements of this Regulation shall be effective, proportionate and dissuasive.
The meals provided in CDG, lodging and meals in YUL, and such, were not done out of customer service but rather legal obligation. The credit due is that AC attempted to mostly comply with law, but it sounds like they really wanted passengers to miss the real part: 600 euros each, which likely would have made the entire flight a negative return. The savings in payouts afforded to AC appears to be anticompetitive behavior, but ianal.
It is sad that this is shocking, that they even tried. I still have several requests to make under the same regulation, but tbh 600 euros isn't really motivating me to deal with paperwork atm.
An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling a flight shall provide each passenger affected with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passenger affected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalent notice. The contact details of the national designated body referred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger in written form.
With respect to reporting infringement and punishment for failure to notify pax of rights by written notice,
Without prejudice to Article 12, each passenger may complain to any body designated under paragraph 1, or to any other competent body designated by a Member State, about an alleged infringement of this Regulation at any airport situated on the territory of a Member State or concerning any flight from a third country to an airport situated on that territory.
And
The sanctions laid down by Member States for infringements of this Regulation shall be effective, proportionate and dissuasive.
The meals provided in CDG, lodging and meals in YUL, and such, were not done out of customer service but rather legal obligation. The credit due is that AC attempted to mostly comply with law, but it sounds like they really wanted passengers to miss the real part: 600 euros each, which likely would have made the entire flight a negative return. The savings in payouts afforded to AC appears to be anticompetitive behavior, but ianal.
It is sad that this is shocking, that they even tried. I still have several requests to make under the same regulation, but tbh 600 euros isn't really motivating me to deal with paperwork atm.
Jul 5, 2018, 7:59 am
#21
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,205
forms disappear or are not available for a delayed AC late ex-EU flight. no news there.
Asking the duty manager while showing the regulations sheet has gotten "I know the law but when I call our support staff at HDQ in Canada I get no response" or "they could only find these disripted flight % off vouchers"
Someone needs to start making written complaints to the EU authority for every delayed flight. Make the airlines prove that X number of forms were handed out and Y claims were paid. If it's 10% of pax it is obvious they weren't handed out. Better yet the technology exists to make these payouts automatic. Force them to do so.
or .Every claim paid is 600EUR, every claim not paid within 90 days, 1000EUR per affected pax must be forwarded to EU authorities general fund.
Asking the duty manager while showing the regulations sheet has gotten "I know the law but when I call our support staff at HDQ in Canada I get no response" or "they could only find these disripted flight % off vouchers"
Someone needs to start making written complaints to the EU authority for every delayed flight. Make the airlines prove that X number of forms were handed out and Y claims were paid. If it's 10% of pax it is obvious they weren't handed out. Better yet the technology exists to make these payouts automatic. Force them to do so.
or .Every claim paid is 600EUR, every claim not paid within 90 days, 1000EUR per affected pax must be forwarded to EU authorities general fund.
Jul 5, 2018, 11:05 am
#22
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
It's interesting, isn't it - clearly AC has proper plans in place to deal with disruptive IRROPS.
Why they execute so poorly 4 times out of 5 is the head scratcher.
The procedure is in place, and it appears that the employees are trained correctly, as demonstrated in this case.
So why does it go so wrong, so often?
Why they execute so poorly 4 times out of 5 is the head scratcher.
The procedure is in place, and it appears that the employees are trained correctly, as demonstrated in this case.
So why does it go so wrong, so often?