Air Canada boots mom, son over seat choice
May 4, 2018, 2:05 pm
#91
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The ticket is a contract for carriage from point A to point B. I'm sure that the tariffs include language that allows the airline an out on the contract under some (probably quite broad) conditions, but what basis would they have to keep the fare if they didn't deliver on the terms of the contract? It should be detailed in the tariff if anybody is fussed enough to comb through all the legalese, though.
Any language that allows one party "out on the contract" would/should be declared void in court.
However refusing to follow crew instructions is not a contractual matter. More "like" a criminal one. In high seas the captain was the absolute master. Had the absolute right to hang you from the high mast if he did not like the way you looked....
This said, offloading you may not exempt the airline from their contractual obligation which entails bringing you from A to B. As long as you are willing to behave, i.e. to follow the captain's instructions. And whenever there are seats available... Next week, next month, whatever.
Jun 27, 2018, 7:50 pm
#92
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Jun 27, 2018, 8:13 pm
#93
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Jun 27, 2018, 8:15 pm
#94
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Jun 27, 2018, 8:16 pm
#95
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There is a policy, the FA enforced it and Heather Morton attempted to argue the point by demanding to see the policy. The crew felt disinclined to debate and tossed her off the plane whereupon she went crying to the media. I'm doubting very much that Heather's behavior was anything like she describes. Another parent with a sense of entitlement who believes the rules don't apply to her discovers to her shock that they actually do.
Jun 27, 2018, 8:20 pm
#96
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Jun 27, 2018, 8:44 pm
#97
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Jun 28, 2018, 5:21 am
#98
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Just curious what is the policy/rule if there are 3 under 11 with 2 parents all in J?
Jun 28, 2018, 8:15 am
#99
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I travel "occasionally" with my child, and have encountered this on about 10 777/787 flights with the new pods.
What generally happens is after boarding, PDB, blankets open, and kids finally settled down watching a movie (i.e. at the least opportune time), a flight attendant who "remembers something about kids being in front of parents in a pod" steps in and asserts authority. "Sir you and your child have been onboard 40 minutes across the aisle from each other but now you must both move across the cabin away from your other group". Or, "sir, your son is sitting BEHIND you: we understand you may not fly our airline much but you must trade seats with him".
About 25% of the time, a senior FA overhears the commotion and takes the FA aside to tell them "look in the procedure guide, section X---I know this was the old rule for classic pods but it is NO LONGER a rule. They can sit across from each other now. "
I believe the classic pod rule was with the 767 A-side cabin in mind. Huge bulkhead separating the single row of A seats from the other side of the cabin.
I have never seen anyone thrown off but last month I was unhappy when I saw AC do this to a family with two agitated austic children who had just calmed down to enjoy their flight. I did speak up to the SD, albeit after the move was finalized and we were in the air. I asked her to show the other FA who forced the move the latest procedure book in case it took out the requirement for front and back seating.
//after stating all of this, Aisle to aisle seating is clearly a
safe way for a parent to help, or front to back. But many FAs allow 787/777 side by side middle seats. I disagree. AC chose to buy rigid, non lowering seat dividers. If there is a need for egress a parent would have to stand over the divider to help with an oxygen mask, if they can reach. Worse yet what happens if there is a need for emergency egress and the parent and child are in row 5 middle pods? Parent has to jump across or walk all the way down the aisle to cross the cabin, then down the other aisle to access their child.
What generally happens is after boarding, PDB, blankets open, and kids finally settled down watching a movie (i.e. at the least opportune time), a flight attendant who "remembers something about kids being in front of parents in a pod" steps in and asserts authority. "Sir you and your child have been onboard 40 minutes across the aisle from each other but now you must both move across the cabin away from your other group". Or, "sir, your son is sitting BEHIND you: we understand you may not fly our airline much but you must trade seats with him".
About 25% of the time, a senior FA overhears the commotion and takes the FA aside to tell them "look in the procedure guide, section X---I know this was the old rule for classic pods but it is NO LONGER a rule. They can sit across from each other now. "
I believe the classic pod rule was with the 767 A-side cabin in mind. Huge bulkhead separating the single row of A seats from the other side of the cabin.
I have never seen anyone thrown off but last month I was unhappy when I saw AC do this to a family with two agitated austic children who had just calmed down to enjoy their flight. I did speak up to the SD, albeit after the move was finalized and we were in the air. I asked her to show the other FA who forced the move the latest procedure book in case it took out the requirement for front and back seating.
//after stating all of this, Aisle to aisle seating is clearly a
safe way for a parent to help, or front to back. But many FAs allow 787/777 side by side middle seats. I disagree. AC chose to buy rigid, non lowering seat dividers. If there is a need for egress a parent would have to stand over the divider to help with an oxygen mask, if they can reach. Worse yet what happens if there is a need for emergency egress and the parent and child are in row 5 middle pods? Parent has to jump across or walk all the way down the aisle to cross the cabin, then down the other aisle to access their child.
Last edited by expert7700; Jun 28, 2018 at 9:09 am
Jun 28, 2018, 8:21 am
#100
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//after stating all of this, Aisle to aisle seating is clearly an excellent and safe way for a parent to help, as is front and ack. But many FAs alllow 787/777 side by side middle seats. I disagree. AC choose to buy rigid, non lowering seat dividers. if there is a need for egress a parent would have to stand over the divider to help with an oxygen mask, if they can reach. Worse yet what happens if there is a need for emergency egress and the parent and child are in row 5 middle pods? Parent has to jump across or walk all the way down the aisle to cross the cabin, then down the other aisle to access their child.
This is amplified with the larger seat/side table width on the 777s.
As a side note, seats 5D/G on the 788 have narrower side table than their row 1-4 counterparts.
Jun 28, 2018, 8:22 am
#101
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I am going to guess the PR fund since its likely that their tarriffs/crew manuals did not have the correct verbiage or were confusing and they would likely lose if it went to small claims. My opinion only. Anyway, wish they would deal with these issues quickly rather than have them show up in the press before resolution.
Mar 25, 2019, 3:59 am
#102
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So our family is flying J today on a 77W. At check-in, I was told I would have to move seats so that our 4 year old was in front of either Mrs yyckerr or I. Having not read this thread or flying with her up front after she was 2yrs, I shrugged and said ok.
Get on the plane and naturally my daughter is upset because she can’t see either of us and she’s scared. I scarcely overhear a passenger behind me discussing with the FA “it used to be the rule...” but that’s all I really hear. Sounded like the same thing as he’s with his 2 kids.
I end up switching with my MIL to be beside my daughter. FA says it’s fine, I need to be either behind or adjacent.
Found this thread. Did some reading. Notice the posted policy has been changed to reflect the current arrangement. Can confirm that if you are told you must sit behind your child that it is incorrect.
Travelling with an infant or child in the Air Canada Signature Class cabin
Get on the plane and naturally my daughter is upset because she can’t see either of us and she’s scared. I scarcely overhear a passenger behind me discussing with the FA “it used to be the rule...” but that’s all I really hear. Sounded like the same thing as he’s with his 2 kids.
I end up switching with my MIL to be beside my daughter. FA says it’s fine, I need to be either behind or adjacent.
Found this thread. Did some reading. Notice the posted policy has been changed to reflect the current arrangement. Can confirm that if you are told you must sit behind your child that it is incorrect.
- When occupying a Classic or Executive Pod in Air Canada Signature Class, a child age 2 to 7 must be seated directly in front of, directly behind or in an adjacent seat facing the accompanying parent or guardian.
Travelling with an infant or child in the Air Canada Signature Class cabin
Mar 25, 2019, 5:19 am
#103
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In the executive pods, A doesn't face D and G doesn't face K. D faces G.
So I'd interpret that statement to mean you need to be behind our in a DG pair.
So I'd interpret that statement to mean you need to be behind our in a DG pair.
Mar 25, 2019, 5:45 am
#104
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I don’t disagree with that interpretation the way it’s written. But having the wall separating you from your child is completely illogical. I would have to walk all the way around through the galley to assist with anything.
We are currently seated in G and K.
I guess further clarification is needed although the SD seemed pretty confident that our current arrangement was compliant.
Edit: according to this SD, “facing” means across the aisle, not across the wall. So A/D or G/K
We are currently seated in G and K.
I guess further clarification is needed although the SD seemed pretty confident that our current arrangement was compliant.
Edit: according to this SD, “facing” means across the aisle, not across the wall. So A/D or G/K
Last edited by yyckerr; Mar 25, 2019 at 8:29 am
Jul 12, 2021, 7:57 pm
#105
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Any updates to the real meaning or interpretation of "adjacent seat facing the accompanying parent or guardian" part in the context of executive pods on an A330 ?
For now I selected 7D for mom, 7G for child and 7K for myself (the dad) and I'm wondering if I should take 6G or 8G just to cover my bases in case of a misinterpretation so that there's also a parent directly behind or in front of the child
For now I selected 7D for mom, 7G for child and 7K for myself (the dad) and I'm wondering if I should take 6G or 8G just to cover my bases in case of a misinterpretation so that there's also a parent directly behind or in front of the child