AC569 Denied Boarding - Seeking Witnesses/Accounts (1/11 SFO-YVR)
Jan 12, 2018, 9:53 pm
#91
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,953
I was there.
You WERE obstructing boarding, and then topped it off by being belligerent. She no doubt operates on the theory that "if he is a prick on the ground he's not likely to get better in a tin can at 36,000 feet." I was happy that you weren't able to join us on the flight. I heard some of the subsequent discussion between GA and crew and the decision was not unilateral by one person. You did not just get "bad luck" by yelling at the wrong GA.
The 24 hours was a good cooling off and life lesson for you. You should reflect on your behaviour. Think of the cost as cheap tuition.
Mic
Drop
Jan 12, 2018, 10:00 pm
#92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,826
Maybe "Sue" is related to the AC staff at YOW who were yelling at passengers after they were trying to get answers when we were 2.5h delayed going in YYZ on Sunday morning. The only thing I could think of is how unprofessional it was on the part of AC, but I kept it to myself (and avoided interacting with AC staff).
As someone close to me would say, gate agents are in a "no status, lots of power" position. There are numerous people in this world with that kind of job description, and sometimes you just have to remember it, roll your eyes and avoid giving them an excuse to make your life miserable.
As someone close to me would say, gate agents are in a "no status, lots of power" position. There are numerous people in this world with that kind of job description, and sometimes you just have to remember it, roll your eyes and avoid giving them an excuse to make your life miserable.
Jan 12, 2018, 10:14 pm
#93
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 20
The best way twe can do to deal with those people is to ignore them and let them bark on their own. It's hard to collect evidence and hold them accountable.
To OP: Have you written in? Did AC at least provide a refund?
On another note, one recent IROPS case I had in China are worth mentioning. It was with MU at TNA. Rolling delays were announced, passengers got very angry and yelled at GAs. GAs backed down, instead a person who was clearly trained with de escalation strategy showed up and calmly explained the situation (fog at TNA required ILS CAT II or III landing or something, aircraft had equipment but pilots were not trained, so inboud missed its slot at SHA. and yes that person explained this very vlearly to everyone) and answered questions. Passengers eventually calmed down despite not receiving any confirmation on when the flight will depart. That person stayed in the gate area helping passengers until the flight departed. I have also had similar experience with CA, CZ in HKG.
I think AC can learn from this. When bad things happen, find a specially trained and qualified person to deal with it, rather than relying on general GAs and CSAs. Not everyone is comfortable or capable of dealing with hundreds of angry people. And it takes only one over reaction to escalate the situation to an unnecessary level.
Jan 12, 2018, 10:22 pm
#94
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
I was there.
You WERE obstructing boarding, and then topped it off by being belligerent. She no doubt operates on the theory that "if he is a prick on the ground he's not likely to get better in a tin can at 36,000 feet." I was happy that you weren't able to join us on the flight. I heard some of the subsequent discussion between GA and crew and the decision was not unilateral by one person. You did not just get "bad luck" by yelling at the wrong GA.
Jan 13, 2018, 1:49 am
#95
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MYF/CMA/SAN/YYZ/YKF
Programs: COdbaUA 1K MM, AA EXP, Bonbon Gold, GHA Titanium, Hertz PC, NEXUS and GE
Posts: 5,839
I don't see how an airline that has quite good cabin crew can have such uniformly horrible ground staff.
Last edited by tcook052; Jan 13, 2018 at 7:53 am Reason: off topic
Jan 13, 2018, 4:51 am
#96
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
I was there.
You WERE obstructing boarding, and then topped it off by being belligerent. She no doubt operates on the theory that "if he is a prick on the ground he's not likely to get better in a tin can at 36,000 feet." I was happy that you weren't able to join us on the flight. I heard some of the subsequent discussion between GA and crew and the decision was not unilateral by one person. You did not just get "bad luck" by yelling at the wrong GA.
The 24 hours was a good cooling off and life lesson for you. You should reflect on your behaviour. Think of the cost as cheap tuition.
edit: To answer some uncertainty from up thread, yes, the flight was definitely delayed. It was at about 5:30 before we pulled away from the gate, if memory serves. The issue was that the previous departing flight, a United bird, was not pulling away from the gate 97, and gate 91, which had also been assigned for a time, had a flight bound for Ireland sitting there waiting on like 4 huge parties who kept missing the ever-extended final boarding call. So, yes, delayed, but definitely not AC's doing (for once).
Jan 13, 2018, 7:37 am
#97
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
I just don't understand this. If you are in Z2 you are among the first to board in Y. Why do you have to be the first of the first? Getting on early is about getting overhead space. Is overhead in Y really scarce at the end of Z2 boarding (honest question)? What was it that you were trying to defend, that made all of this worthwhile?
Jan 13, 2018, 7:44 am
#98
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AC, VIPorter, Marriott LT Plat, HH Diamond
Posts: 368
Given my experience at SFO - I flew thru SFO with AC more than 12 times last year, I will say this about the SFO staff. Concierge team has been great. GAs have been great at enforcing Zone boarding. They are also super super aggressive in measuring bags and I have seen some nasty interactions between customers and GAs as the sizer contortion happens with mandatory gate check. A couple of GAs and one in particular while enforcing AC policy has IMHO very poor 'bedside manners' if you get my drift.
Jan 13, 2018, 7:56 am
#99
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: YVR
Programs: AC Black Card, Nexus
Posts: 292
I just don't understand this. If you are in Z2 you are among the first to board in Y. Why do you have to be the first of the first? Getting on early is about getting overhead space. Is overhead in Y really scarce at the end of Z2 boarding (honest question)? What was it that you were trying to defend, that made all of this worthwhile?
Jan 13, 2018, 10:19 am
#100
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
I just don't understand this. If you are in Z2 you are among the first to board in Y. Why do you have to be the first of the first? Getting on early is about getting overhead space. Is overhead in Y really scarce at the end of Z2 boarding (honest question)? What was it that you were trying to defend, that made all of this worthwhile?
Jan 13, 2018, 10:58 am
#101
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,920
I’ve said this before: if you’re flying Y and you’re Z2, the only people who can possibly get bun space ahead of you are SEs in Y. It’s really no big deal. That’s been my position ever since zone boarding was introduced, and I’ve not witnessed anything since then that has diminished my boarding experience. As a matter of fact, this is one of those rare enhancements where AC managed to give something to its most elite customers (get on first) while not taking anything away from their elite customers (priority boarding with reasonable assurance of bin space).
This is where I usually fall in flying, too. And while you’re right that half the plane can be Z2, I don’t ever recall having to place my bag in a bin >2 rows from my seat. Even in an E90.
This is where I usually fall in flying, too. And while you’re right that half the plane can be Z2, I don’t ever recall having to place my bag in a bin >2 rows from my seat. Even in an E90.
If I may comment at the risk of coming off as a contrarian; As was stated up thread, a large number of Y will be Z2 .
Z2 is for Latitude fares, Altitude Elite 75K, 50K, 35K or Star Alliance Gold member and select TD and CIBC credit card holders. And in addition; Altitude Super Elite 100K, Elite 75K, 50K, 35K or Star Alliance gold members may invite immediate family members (including spouse, common-law, same sex partner and dependent children) and onetravel companion to board with them even if not travelling on the same reservation. And; travel companions of Altitude Super Elite 100K, Elite 75K, 50K, 35K and Star Alliance Gold customers as well as select TD/CIBC credit card holders booked on the same reservation and checking in at the same time will receive the same boarding zone as the Altitude member or credit card holder.
That is one heck of a lot of people. The Z1s who sit with the unwashed and a large number of Z2s are typically found in the preferred rows, the rows on the AB 320 that range from 12 back to 16, and bin space is quickly used up. Many of the E series have that annoying mini bin space on the A side, so bin space is at a premium. Your comment seems more appropriate for a wide body than AC's fleet of decrepit AB319,320,321. If anything this thread highlights the need to pare down Z2 to exclude the entourages and E35. perhaps it is even time to get rid of 25 and just let the 35 replace it.
Jan 13, 2018, 11:14 am
#102
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
I don’t want to go too far OT, but the relevance to this thread is there’s no point in getting upset about going in Z2 when you’re almost definitely going to find bin space and be comfortably seated before the “unwashed masses” show up.
Jan 13, 2018, 12:21 pm
#103
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
That response itself..... End of conversation, IMO no more debating about GA attitudes etc. for this thread.......
Jan 13, 2018, 12:58 pm
#104
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Canada
Programs: Aeroplan E50/MM, HH gold, Nat Exec Elite, Kimpton Karma
Posts: 2,354
I am wondering about 2 things. 1. If OP asked the GA he being deemed a threat warrants calling airport security. If not, why not? Or insist on calling security himself to escalate the situation with the hopes of drawing attention from a manager from AC. 2. If OP at the end of boarding, walked up to GA, and expressed regret and apologize for the heated exchange, would it have helped OP get back on that flight? A lot of stress of boarding early is created by airline itself especially in winter. Add on the bulky jackets on top of fighting for bin space, people are cranky and stressed. I have learned to bite my tongue these days though. Recently, I got lectured from a CATSA employee about being at security early. I was getting what I want (him letting me get to the front of the line), so I just zipped my lips, thanked him, smiled and moved on.
Jan 13, 2018, 1:39 pm
#105
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Wow!!!!!!!! Caught red-handed by another FTer...... Speaking of fake news...... Whats next? An intimidating attorney's letter to the witness(es)???!!!
That response itself..... End of conversation, IMO no more debating about GA attitudes etc. for this thread.......
That response itself..... End of conversation, IMO no more debating about GA attitudes etc. for this thread.......
Face meet egg.