ITA Matrix and AC reservations
 

I generated a rather simple multi-city itinerary using Matrix ITA and used the link generated by Powertools to book on AC.com. I was able to fill in all the passenger information, select seats and enter my credit card details. However, AC.com told me something was wrong and that I should call in to complete the booking with the flight numbers and fare classes I had selected.

I called in, talked to a nice agent who tried getting me the same fare Matrix gave me and failed, claiming that the inventory had been sold out "3 minutes" before I completed my reservation, the last seats in those fare classes having been purchased by two ladies from what he could see in his system, hence why the website rejected my booking. The agent said the first two legs were now only available in high Flex (H) and return two legs were only available now in Latitude (B), nearly tripling the cost of the ticket.

I really doubt that the agent's system allows him to see that "two ladies" had just snagged the last seats "3 minutes" before me, but I could be wrong.

Initial routing was Jan 30th AC8909, AC7532 and return was Jan 31st AC2896, AC8926. Matrix ITA still shows these flights and fares as available. Thoughts?

I would try again.

A few weeks ago, was trying to book a P fare available online, but was upgrading from a current booking....

Was showing 3 available online when on the phone with AC.

Agent 1 said it wasn't available. Gave up with agent 1. Called back and Agent 2 booked it right away.

Hopefully you get it sorted.

Not uncommon for Matrix to pull up things that aren't or are no longer available.

According to EF, on the outbound is only available in H, so that checks out with what the agent said:

AC (**) 8909 0 YQB
01/30/17 5:00 AM YYZ
01/30/17 6:53 AM DH4
Daily
69% / 20m Y9 B9 M9 U9 H6 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

AC (**) 7532 0 YYZ
01/30/17 8:25 AM PHL
01/30/17 9:52 AM E75
Daily
75% / 28m J9 C9 D9 Z9 P8 R7 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H6 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

On the return:

AC (**) 2896 0 EWR
01/31/17 5:30 PM YYZ
01/31/17 7:12 PM ERJ
Su,M,T,W,Th,F
67% / 40m Y4 B4 M4 U4 H4 Q4 V4 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

AC (**) 8926 0 YYZ
01/31/17 8:50 PM YQB
01/31/17 10:27 PM DH4
Daily
66% / 35m Y9 B9 M1 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

If you're trying to book for two pax, the Y9 B9 M1 of the second flight might force the whole thing to Latitude.

I wouldn't bother calling AC again. Can't speak to the veracity of the agent's story about two ladies booking, but the rest seems to check out.

Didn't want to start a new thread. Helping a buddy of mine try to find flights to come to YHZ this summer, from BJX. Right now Air Canada wants $1000 CAD for a specific combination of flights booking into high flex H. When I search this itinerary on ITA I see it for $694 CAD booking into Tango G. I used powertools to force it over to Air Canada. I am just wondering what people's success rate using powertools for situations like this is? I don't really want to try booking it yet as his plans aren't 100% confirmed, so don't want to deal with booking then cancelling just to see if it works.

It will likely error out when you try to complete the booking. Matrix caches availability, so it's likely that it simply hasn't refreshed availability recently.

Works wonders for me.

Edit: You might want to check which version (CA/US) you should book though. There was one instance where AC.com wanted to book me into H, but I was able to use UA.com to book G because the US point of sale inventory was different than the Canadian point of sale inventory.

I was reading Adam's original reply and thinking, "wow, those loads....and several months down the road...in January of all months...".

Then I realized someone had latched onto an old thread....LOL

I was under the assumption that AC availability is based on origin-destination and that Matrix doesn't deal with married segments - which is why Matrix sometimes shows things that AC doesn't offer. Is that true?

Not sure that's likely to be the issue on a Mexico-Canada issue, but it's possible.

I'm not an expert on Matrix, but a quick Googling suggests that's not the case. In fact, this thread on another forum suggests Matrix is actually quite good at dealing with married segments.

I wish there was an ITA Matrix user guide with advanced codes used by AC passengers.

This tool has so much potential, but I have yet to figure out the more complex scenarios and how to code that into the tool.

There's already a user guide for advanced routing codes...

Yes, I guess I need some hand-holding though or a user guide with common but complex use cases/examples a typical AC passenger may go through. I have EF as well, but I'm only using it to 10% of its potential.

For example, I still haven't figured out the proper syntax when I want to force a *A flight.

If that's the case, you can do it on AC.com.

Just choose "US English" :p

If EF can show married segment availability, I have to assume ITA can.

/ alliance star-alliance. A helpful guide is here.

The codes that will be useful to you really depend on what you want to do.

Last year I wanted to fly YYC-LON (stop)-ZRH; ATH-YYC. I wanted to do it on *A and I wanted to fly home on FRA-YVR so I could do 747 upper deck.

So I searched multi-city, YYC-LHR; LCY-ZRH and had to do ATH-FRA and FRA-YYC separately to get the FRA-YVR-YYC I wanted in the end.

I used the / alliance star-alliance filter to only get *A flights.

I used the N filter to only get non-stops on YYC-LHR, LCY-ZRH and ATH-FRA flights. I filtered by connecting airport to get the connection through YVR on the way home.

And so on...

But you may have completely different needs. So if the guide still isn't clear, feel free to post questions and I'm sure people here will try to help (I will).

Thanks Adam. I appreciate the link to the guide. I'll take another look and see if this one is more clear.

Well I have always been able to get Matrix itineraries ticketed via a TA. AC often doesn't show the routing that I want. Calling in, AC says they can't see availability. So off to the TA it goes to get ticketed.

I saw a previous post on the AC forum which suggested telling the call centre agent to turn their "connection arrows" on (what does that even mean? :confused::confused:). Supposedly that makes Matrix prices work... (see: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...ed-prices.html)

I have seen some strange itineraries on Matrix though. For example, P fare basis but allowing Z on one of the segments. Matrix shows it, but never tried to ticket it.

From my experience (i.e. this is me inferring things from what agents have said; I have no inside information), agents can explicitly specify segments as connections. However, that's never affected pricing for me. It just affects how they're grouped on the website (one group of three flights YYJ-YVR-YYC-SFO or three groups of one flight each). But I don't know much more than that.

Some fares allow or require ticketing other segments in certain fare classes.

I had booked YQM-YHZ-YUL-YOW-YYZ-SFO in V or something like that. Then I realized making it P (YQM-YHZ was single-cabin) was only $190 more, so obviously I called to do that.

It took forever to explain this to the agent. "There is no business class on YQM-YHZ" etc. "Right, it needs to be M." "Why would you want to pay for M if V is available? Leaving this segment alone and moving the rest to P will cost you $600." "No, I want YQM-YHZ in M, and the rest in P." "Fine I'll try it.... oh wow it's only asking for a $190 upcharge now."

That one made more sense than a P fare allowing/requiring Z, but ITA should only show things that are valid. I've never been unable to ticket an itinerary found through Matrix or Google Flights by calling in, at a price within 50 cents of what I saw online.

AC will sometimes alter the availability of future segments based on segments already booked.

For example, consider the following itinerary that a passenger wants to book:

26 APR YOW-YYZ-LAX
01 MAY SFO-YVR-YYZ

The passenger will make their own arrangements to get from LAX to SFO, so that's not important here.

Searching independently, you will see availability like this :

However, once you 'sell' the seats for YOW-YYZ-LAX and redisplay for SFO-YVR-YYZ, you will now see this:

The T and S inventory is now zeroed, G has gone to 2 (from 9), and P and Z to 4 (from 5).

ITA struggles to deal with situations like this.

So does "ITA struggles to deal with situations like this" mean that these ITA fares are wrong and cannot be ticketed?

Can't this example just be booked as two O/Ws on a single PNR provided that there are no fare rules limiting combinability?

From what D582 posted, what I understand is that the inventory AC is willing to sell to a pax originating in X will be different than what is offered to a pax originating from Y.

So in his case, you would have to book two separate PNRs, which has different implications (but I think most FTers understand this and live with it).

But I wonder if this is an in house AC logic, or if it's actually viewable by TAs. Cause if it's the latter, then ITA should pick up on that, no?

The fares themselves are not 'wrong', but the inventory ITA thinks is available is not actually available for the given itinerary.

The example is for booking two "one-ways" on a single PNR.

In this example, if you had 3 people travelling and wanted to book G class Flex fares, you could not book them on one reservation as 3 G seats are no longer available on the return once the outbound seats are booked.

You could book this example on two separate PNRs, but then the return fare would be higher as it would a US fare origin, and you may have to deal with double change fees if you needed to change the entire trip.

If you are looking at an itinerary involving round-trip fares, then it obviously has to be one PNR.

The logic is from AC's OD revenue management system that returns availability based on the a) segments being searched and b) segments currently booked in the PNR.

A travel agent can see both a) and b) as the PNR is built.

ITA can see a) in its searches of inventory, but have issues with b) as it does not actually build a PNR.

Makes sense ^

Now what I'd also like to know is if you've ever seen issues with the way ITA combines fares and booking codes. Especially with codeshares and interlines.

Just like AP's search engine hides true availability. So does AC's res II/III/Whatever system.

It might not be intentional though. Rather, issues with the system/software.

Not too long ago, flying back from Spain, AGP to YYC through FRA with an overnight at FRA, I could not get aircanada.com to show the FRA-YYC leg on the non-stop. Would only show earleir flights through YYZ and possibly YUL or YOW. P fsre but that's not the point, it just would not show that option. I call them to have this changed. Initially the agent could not find it either. After some insistence on my part, not sure what he/she did, but they managed to do it.

In another case, there was a codeshared leg on LH that would price in Y on a P itinerary. Using the LH flight number instead, gave us P, same price. I had to call, again.

Here is one so far I have not found a way to do online.

Itinerary: P fare to a city in Brazil served by O6. Domestic Brazilian legs on O6 only feature Y. AC codeshares on most of these.

Matrix and aircanada.com will price OK an itinerary to that place through GRU, and a return from either that place or GRU, no problem.

But I am trying to add a stopover at GRU on the way back. aircanada,com won't price an itinerary with a domestic leg in other countries, period. As to matrix, it prices using other airlines that feature a business class, with at least one stopover for that leg, and at an absurd price.

Incidentally if I price that leg alone on O6 on matrix and pass it over to aircanada.com, it prices all right. I suspect if I tried to buy, aircanada.com would hiccup when reaching payment/ticket issuing?

Must be in another thread that someone was speculating that Air Canada would not issue a ticket that includes no leg on air canada.

I just booked two of these. Constructed on matrix, then passed on to aircanada.com.

Siple itineraries. One single leg, second, two legs. Worked like a charm. I guess we'll get AQDs on these. Not that it was a big deal, one was 100 bucks, the second, about 300. :D

Did either of them have AC flight numbers?

One of them at least exists as an AC codeshare, but I booked as the actual, not the codeshare. (Matrix would not price the codeshare.)

[QUOTE=canadiancow; I've never been unable to ticket an itinerary found through Matrix or Google Flights by calling in, at a price within 50 cents of what I saw online.[/QUOTE]

The double negative was a bit confusing, but try this on for size;
YYZ-ICN-BKK-HKG-YYZ - AC wanted $2200 more than Flight Network.

Our good friends at AC attempted to sell me the more expensive OZ segment ICN-BKK as an AC code share. They refused to sell as OZ. I went to Flight Network and purchased the lower airfare. I then used the savings on another airline as I wanted to share the some loyalty to AC as AC had shown me.

One of the many reasons why I support any legislation or regulation that will smack AC

But did you try on matrix? And if you did, did you try to then buy it on aircanada.com, porting it from matrix.

For random dates and in Y it seems to accept a round trip through ICN with the Asiana flight number for CAD 2180 all in.

I still don't think one should be all fired up on issues like these. Unlikely to be by design; more likely just incompetence somewhere or lack of attention. If you would tlk to the fares desk they would probably get it for you.

I used the matrix tools and made multiple efforts. It did not work.
There is no guarantee that it would work, so I certainly am not angry at matrix.
I called AC ticketing. I insisted the fare was valid and that I could purchase via an OTA. The arrogant fellow who was loudly chewing his cud on the other end said no and laughed at me when I asked him to try.

Your experience is in Y now. My experience was a a few moths ago and was for business class. (Surely you can not expect me to fly in Y? How can I ever hope to catch a glimpse of FT's resident bon vivant in his bedazzled shorts, if I sit in the back?)

This outcome isn't anything new. We all know that the booking options at AC are awful. I am not a sophisticated purchaser of travel like you and I just don't have the time, nor the patience to chase these tickets down. If AC is unable to deliver the goods, I go elsewhere. I prefer the clean efficiency of AF/KLM, Cathay, EVA etc.

Fair enough.

But still I would not allocate to maliciousness what is likely just incompetence.

As to arrogant agents, sometimes depending upon how you handle them, they'll actually be on your side. I really have no cmplaint on that side, expect that occasionally you can tell the guy is not really trying.

Best I had, I first got nowhere with an agent, who insisted in quoting precisely the same I was finding on aircanada.com. I next booked a Y fare to a random China destination that was not really what I wanted but the price was OK. I called again and asked to switch PEK for CAN. That did it, the guy could not do it and sent to the desk fare. Which came back the following day. Wondering, why did I book Y when a cheaper B fare existed (equally upgradeable), and that included NRT-CAN on NH? Which aircanad.comwould not offer. Which the agent would no offer.

Truth is, these fare games can get so arcane that programming them right 100% of the time is nearly impossible. And I suspect it's not just AC.

But I alssosuspect that oif you master the technique of transferring from matrix to aircanada.com you'll ended up often making like easier.

In my recent experience, I'll likely get AQDs from tickets I fully expected would have to buy directly from that other airline. Given the new rule that 014 tickets on Star airlines now get you AQDs.

I totally agree.

I've tried to replicate the success of many of the booking and other tips / examples shared on FT and, while most of the time I can get them to work, sometimes I encounter a system issue, timing constraint or simply 'the hand' of someone who can't/won't help.

I sometimes wonder about all of the brainpower that we put in to squeezing what we can out of the 'system' just to get a little more ________ (fill in the blank). Be they R games, CC games, room upgrade games or whatever, it's all a game in the end and with variable rules. But sometimes I think the challenge is half of the reward. At least that's what I tell my spouse.

The challenge is definitely half the fun.

And if they want to call me a bottom feeder, so be it.

I think Stranger should set up an ITA Matrix Do....exclusively for Air Canada members ... :cool:

Via WebEx of course, since we wouldn't want to fly.

Is there a TL;dr on how to copy something from Matrix to ac.com? Or does it involve using the phone like a savage?

It involves clicking a link.

I believe instructions are somewhere on FT. They work.