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Originally Posted by 24left
(Post 29299192)
Well, thank you for your post and I will disagree based on my own travel experiences.
There are far too many people who have now found a way to get their pets in the cabin by claiming they are ESAs - with or without vests, certification or other. And now we have them in the MLLs. Unleashed. Near food stations. If one is so frail as to need an Emotional Support Animal while travelling, then perhaps they should stay home. No telling what kind of unexpected emotions might occur should there be turbulence, or a lengthy delay, or a long line for the lav, or.... |
Originally Posted by eracerblue https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/imag...s/viewpost.gif I suspect this is actually a bigger issue than ESAs: people passing off their pet as a service animal, sometimes vest and all. Simply put, AC should not admit (lounge or plane) any "service" dog not wearing a vest.
Originally Posted by ou81two
(Post 29299087)
Are you going to pay off those massive ADA lawsuits that they would get and lose? There's no requirement in US legislation that the dog wear a vest. Also, if something is an ESA, it's not a service dog, it's an ESA. Wearing a service dog vest would not be accurate.
In BC anyway (and I suspect all of Canada), if you expect service dog privileges, it must be wearing it's vest and on duty. In many jurisdictions passing your dog off as a service animal (vest or otherwise) is a criminal offense - so someone has procedures on how to identify and deal with it. There ARE a few questions that can sniff out offenders. There ARE behaviors that a legit service dog would and would not exhibit. Wondering around without leash/owner is not one of them. I agree, ESA's generally do not need to wear a vest, and if they do it cannot say "service animal". This is my point: * An ESA is closer to a pet, and therefore must be leashed, kenneled, or otherwise comply to the establishment's guidelines. * An ESA has zero purpose being off leash unless it's on someone's lap, or nearby. |
Maybe I should take Ace on my MUC turn this weekend.
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29300406)
Maybe I should take Ace on my MUC turn this weekend.
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Originally Posted by capedreamer
(Post 29300453)
How many of these did you book?!? :eek::p
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29299857)
I guess blind people should also stay home?
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Originally Posted by yyznomad
(Post 29300533)
Well, that was regarding ESA. I don't think 24left was talking about seeing-eye dogs or similar.
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Originally Posted by yyznomad
(Post 29300533)
Well, that was regarding ESA. I don't think 24left was talking about seeing-eye dogs or similar.
A service animal is well trained for the task and is regulated (requirement has to come from an actual medial professional) and is needed by the person using it. I by no means saying that people with anxiety, etc., issues don't legitimately need a service animal. However, you're the internet, a credit card and a bit of your time away from getting an "ESA" designation for your family pet, and the animal has zero training. I was waiting to board an AC flight last week when a disembarking pax had a dog (i.e. family pet) with a fake "ESA" vest that was straining at the end of its lead trying to jump on the gate lice around the podium. This is what we don't need. |
Originally Posted by eracerblue
(Post 29292181)
And what's your take on time, cost, and jurisdictions? But "standards" vary widely across jurisdictions and someone, somewhere, will be able to find that "1-hour" diagnosis from someone who is considered "legitimate", "certified", "legal", etc.. (there are private health "industries" that also make a business of doing "1-hour" diagnosis... but I'll digress if I go there as its not related to flying) |
Originally Posted by 24left
(Post 29300591)
If one is so frail as to need an Emotional Support Animal while travelling, then perhaps they should stay home. No telling what kind of unexpected emotions might occur should there be turbulence, or a lengthy delay, or a long line for the lav, or....
Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 29299857)
I guess blind people should also stay home?
Originally Posted by yyznomad
(Post 29300533)
Well, that was regarding ESA. I don't think 24left was talking about seeing-eye dogs or similar.
Originally Posted by 24left
(Post 29300591)
Correct. I was not, and I am not sure why the other comment was made in response to my post. Thank you.
Belittling these people, even inappropriate questioning is a form of harassment. Are you going to name call the person taking their asthma inhaler, and deny the person on the wheel chair? No, because there is a sense of societal decency and laws to protect them. We should be clear that it is in everyone's interest to have procedures in place to deal with illegitimate ESA or service animals, and focus discussion within the FlyerTalk terms accordingly. |
Originally Posted by eracerblue
(Post 29300681)
I believe what cow is trying to say, is that ESA's are for people with genuine bona fide disabilities. Full stop. Belittling these people, even inappropriate questioning is a form of harassment. Are you going to name call the person taking their asthma inhaler, and deny the person on the wheel chair? No, because there is a sense of societal decency and laws to protect them. We should be clear that it is in everyone's interest to have procedures in place to deal with illegitimate ESA or service animals, and focus discussion within the FlyerTalk terms accordingly. However, if one chooses to insult those with ESA needs, I'm not sure if that violates FT TOC? If it does, then a majority of this thread should be thrown out. |
I find it funny that someone is mentioning belittling on flyertalk as a form of harassment. If that's the case, charge 90% of flyertalk members with harassment, because that's what goes on here for pretty much everything on a daily basis. :)
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Originally Posted by jazzsax
(Post 29300777)
I find it funny that someone is mentioning belittling on flyertalk as a form of harassment. If that's the case, charge 90% of flyertalk members with harassment, because that's what goes on here for pretty much everything on a daily basis. :)
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Originally Posted by eracerblue
(Post 29300681)
I believe what cow is trying to say, is that ESA's are for people with genuine bona fide disabilities. Full stop.
Belittling these people, even inappropriate questioning is a form of harassment. Are you going to name call the person taking their asthma inhaler, and deny the person on the wheel chair? No, because there is a sense of societal decency and laws to protect them. We should be clear that it is in everyone's interest to have procedures in place to deal with illegitimate ESA or service animals, and focus discussion within the FlyerTalk terms accordingly. |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 29300807)
I think (hope!) that we're all agreeing that the problem is the ability to fake this for certain kinds disabilities (I don't think anyone is going to fake being blind to get Fido on the plane) and purchasing fake service vests, etc. for animals. This is clearly being abused, and I completely agree with you that it needs to be addressed.
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