Jan 16, 2018, 8:46 pm
Last edit by: eracerblue
In all likelihood, airlines may be nervous about dealing with this issue firsthand. In lieu of this, perhaps we can formulate a step by step guide for pax significantly bothered by a dog, similar to how people choose to confront pax not using headphones, etc. THIS IS A DRAFT, OPEN FOR ALTERATION (NOT SUGGESTED FOR USE AT THIS TIME).
Pax procedure:
There's likely poor training for staff on this issue. A staff process should be something like:
1. Dog comes in off leash, or pax not holding harness
a. Is your dog required because of a disability? If yes, What work is it trained to perform?
b. Given satisfactory answers, but unsatisfactory appearance (no vest/harness) or behaviour of dog, lightly inform pax that authorities have been called in prior instances if the animal acts in untrained manner (eg wandering around the lounge). It is a public area, and the dog must remain "on duty".
c. In addition a service animal would have been registered ahead of time and would be indicated on the BP/ticket remarks. If it's not, then it's not a service animal and should never be off leash or harness.
2. Dog comes in on leash/harness
Same as above, though obviously can add the: should remain on leash bit.
3. Dog comes in in carry-on kennel
a. "That's a cute pet you have! Just so you know, our policy is X" (which requires your pet to stay in its kennel while in the food area, whatever)
b. Pax says it's an emotional support dog. "In that case, while outside of the cafeteria area, you can have it on leash or on your lap. But if it's wandering around you may be asked to leave.
And in the cases where there's an issue with a claimed service animal:
a. Check BP/ticket remarks
b. Remind pax that dog must remain on duty/in carrier etc as appropriate
c. Inform/remind pax that it is an offence to pass as a service dog
d. Call authorities
Or something like that. Pretty basic stuff.... although maybemployees thought they'd only be interacting with the well behaved pax?
Pax procedure:
1. Sees an unruly dog, suspecting it is not a real ESA or service animal
2. "Hi, cute dog you have there, is he a service animal?"
3a. "Cool an ESA - just so you know, ESA's really aren't permitted off leash or out of kennel unless beside you or on your lap, as it defeats the purpose. Even service dogs don't get to wander. I know you're legit, but I have a friend with an ESA and they say how people overstepping their rights make everyone look bad." Ask to see their BP if you're ballsy, which would generally say MEDA, not PETC.
3b. "Cool - service animals are expected to remain 'on duty', and it seems he may not be"
4. "I understand, but the only reason a service animal should be off leash and away from handler is because you are having an episode and he's going for help. You probably don't want someone calling emergency services unnecessarily." FYI This BP may say MEDA, maybe nothing.
5. Politely remove yourself.
6. If situation persists, inform MLL staff.
7. If you feel confident the dog is being masqueraded as a service dog, and you feel empowered for someone to have a very bad day, find the airport's non-emergency police line...
.
.
ALTERNATIVE PAX PROCEDURE:
1. "Hi, are you okay???!!"
2. "I was really worried and I have called emergency services. In <insert your state/province> the only reason a service animal of any type would be away from their owner is if they were trying to call for help. Are you sure you're ok?"
There's likely poor training for staff on this issue. A staff process should be something like:
1. Dog comes in off leash, or pax not holding harness
a. Is your dog required because of a disability? If yes, What work is it trained to perform?
b. Given satisfactory answers, but unsatisfactory appearance (no vest/harness) or behaviour of dog, lightly inform pax that authorities have been called in prior instances if the animal acts in untrained manner (eg wandering around the lounge). It is a public area, and the dog must remain "on duty".
c. In addition a service animal would have been registered ahead of time and would be indicated on the BP/ticket remarks. If it's not, then it's not a service animal and should never be off leash or harness.
2. Dog comes in on leash/harness
Same as above, though obviously can add the: should remain on leash bit.
3. Dog comes in in carry-on kennel
a. "That's a cute pet you have! Just so you know, our policy is X" (which requires your pet to stay in its kennel while in the food area, whatever)
b. Pax says it's an emotional support dog. "In that case, while outside of the cafeteria area, you can have it on leash or on your lap. But if it's wandering around you may be asked to leave.
And in the cases where there's an issue with a claimed service animal:
a. Check BP/ticket remarks
b. Remind pax that dog must remain on duty/in carrier etc as appropriate
c. Inform/remind pax that it is an offence to pass as a service dog
d. Call authorities
Or something like that. Pretty basic stuff.... although maybemployees thought they'd only be interacting with the well behaved pax?
Fake service dogs on board AC flight?
Oct 1, 2016, 5:31 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2011
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https://beta.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco...allergies.html
Oct 1, 2016, 8:10 pm
#33
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Canada
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While the manager might have issues asking... As a member of the public, can you ask about it? And if the passenger does have a fake service animal, and admits to you that it's fake - can you report it?
Of course there's a fine line between nicely asking what a service animal does, and just being plain rude (since there's a good chance it's a genuine service animal), but given how many pet owner's I've overhead talking about how they obtained fake "certification" for their animals, I don't think I'll hesitate to ask what duties a potentially questionable animal is fulfilling.
(It's quite bad: I've overheard friends of friends, people at my office, and even people in public talking about fake certifications just to avoid paying a pet fee.)
Of course there's a fine line between nicely asking what a service animal does, and just being plain rude (since there's a good chance it's a genuine service animal), but given how many pet owner's I've overhead talking about how they obtained fake "certification" for their animals, I don't think I'll hesitate to ask what duties a potentially questionable animal is fulfilling.
(It's quite bad: I've overheard friends of friends, people at my office, and even people in public talking about fake certifications just to avoid paying a pet fee.)
Oct 2, 2016, 12:10 pm
#35
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Please heed the old saying of let sleeping dogs lie.
It's not of your business, is it? Seriously, why are you sticking your nose into this? Air Canada requires that service animals be registered a minimum 24 hours prior to a flight and this requires calling reservations. If there is no dossier on them customer than the reservation agent will often if not always ask for evidence that the animal is a CERTIFIED service animal. Happy?
It's not of your business, is it? Seriously, why are you sticking your nose into this? Air Canada requires that service animals be registered a minimum 24 hours prior to a flight and this requires calling reservations. If there is no dossier on them customer than the reservation agent will often if not always ask for evidence that the animal is a CERTIFIED service animal. Happy?
In reviewing the advisory circular and the supporting regulations. it is clear the original intent of the regulations was to restrict service animal to be for guide dogs. I draw this conclusion from references to Canadian Guide Dogs for the Blind (section 6.1.2), the service animal should be harnessed (section 6.2.3 and 6.3.1)
In terms of training of a service animal there are two parts:
(1) training the animal for specialized purpose.
(2) training the animal on appropriate behaviour for service animal.
The second part of the service animal training is what causes the the animal to be provided access to public areas where pet animals are prohibited. The behavioural training is what causes the most amount of disagreement with the general public as to whether the animal is actually a service animal.
In the service animal certification world there is a lot of disagreement for the behavioural training aspects. A friend of mine works for an animal rescue society and reports the behavioural training can exclude up to 50% of dogs because they cannot pass the test. Failure to pass the test can also be a sign the animal is too smart for the job (the animal can detect when to act appropriately and when not).
While there is an overall generally accepted training standard for service animals, there is also a number of new organizations who don't operate to the same standards as traditional certification organizations. The problem is that if a service animal has a high rate of failure with the certification, this pushes up the cost of certification and what does the animal do after failing the certification?
Why should we stick our noses into the business of transporting service animals? The process is regulatory and as such the business of democratic government is "by the people, for the people, of the people" (Gettysburg address). This is why there are public hearings and public comment periods on government laws, bylaws, and regulations.
Oct 2, 2016, 12:44 pm
#36
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: YVR
Programs: AC S100K
Posts: 978
We stick our noses in the affairs of service animals because the regulation on air transportation of service animals is regulated by the federal government. The current regulation is Advisory Circular 700-014, the link can be found here: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...00-014-502.htm
In reviewing the advisory circular and the supporting regulations. it is clear the original intent of the regulations was to restrict service animal to be for guide dogs. I draw this conclusion from references to Canadian Guide Dogs for the Blind (section 6.1.2), the service animal should be harnessed (section 6.2.3 and 6.3.1)
....
Why should we stick our noses into the business of transporting service animals? The process is regulatory and as such the business of democratic government is "by the people, for the people, of the people" (Gettysburg address). This is why there are public hearings and public comment periods on government laws, bylaws, and regulations.
In reviewing the advisory circular and the supporting regulations. it is clear the original intent of the regulations was to restrict service animal to be for guide dogs. I draw this conclusion from references to Canadian Guide Dogs for the Blind (section 6.1.2), the service animal should be harnessed (section 6.2.3 and 6.3.1)
....
Why should we stick our noses into the business of transporting service animals? The process is regulatory and as such the business of democratic government is "by the people, for the people, of the people" (Gettysburg address). This is why there are public hearings and public comment periods on government laws, bylaws, and regulations.
The rules define when an operator must accept service animals and how the operator can insist they be handled. The rule does not constrain the airline from a more expansive view of what constitutes a disability, a service animal, or an accommodation.
I'd be cautious about thinking intervention in such business is helpful.
I have traveled with people needing accommodations. When accomodated, their disabilities are rarely noticed.
Occasionally a fellow passenger will notice the accomodation before the person and feel the need to say something intrusive, if not rude. Such interventions are difficult to handle with grace.
Oct 2, 2016, 12:51 pm
#37
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
In BC the service animal standards have been recently tightened, which most people accept was done to counter abuse and poorly trained animals. While this doesn't apply to air travel, it does give some insight into the public issues around service animals.
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/ju...nd-service-dog
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/ju...nd-service-dog
Aug 28, 2017, 1:16 pm
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,103
Dog, in J, barking
I guess he is a dykwiad and I get the whole service dog thing, but he is barking, loud, whining and panting ... going to be a long fight since we haven't even left the gate
what the policy as this thing gets out of hand?
what the policy as this thing gets out of hand?
Aug 28, 2017, 1:25 pm
#40
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"Service dogs" are trained and there's no way they'd be barking unless there was a serious issue.
Are you sure it isn't just a pet?
Are you sure it isn't just a pet?
Aug 28, 2017, 2:15 pm
#41
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Aug 28, 2017, 2:25 pm
#42
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Aug 28, 2017, 4:04 pm
#45
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If it's an actual service dog, it should have been trained against this kind of behavior. I would lay dollars to doughnuts that the owner couldn't produce any paperwork for the dog being an actual service dog. Of course, in today's society, s/he'd probably push some baloney on on social media to whip up a frenzy and try to collect a huge settlement check just to shut up.