Flight attendants [do not] have priority over eUpgrades
 

After an annoying experience where a flight attendant sat in J while I was on the eUpgrade list (SE on Flex fare), I wrote in about it.

Here's the response.

Glad to see my eUpgrades working so hard on the few flights I'm not already booked in J.

"As you were on standby for an upgrade on this flight, AC470, the crew would have been previously upgraded ahead of any waitlisted passengers wanting an upgrade to Business class."

Was it because you were on stand-by? Or should that not matter?

And..... Whats so wrong with that?
Even Better, Here's the smack that others often uses

Disingenious thread title
 

Not only were you not able to obtain an upgrade to sit in the J cabin, but one less J seat was made available for sale as well.

When crew have to deadhead (for what ever reason - all of which are none of our collective business) the crew members are confirmed in what is termed "positive" space and their boarding passes will have "POS" printed on then meaning the deadheading crew are guaranteed a seat.

It's disappointing to see some people here exhibiting such disdain for employees just trying to do their jobs and engaging in apparent petty class warfare where none are really needed.

Seriously, if anyone wants to sit in the J cabin, then buy a J ticket, upgrades are not a guarantee of sitting in the J cabin, so be happy when it does happen. ^

Standby for an upgrade. Waitlisted.

The issue is that it's contrary to everything I've ever heard on FT.

I don't care what the policy is as long as I'm aware of it, and this is well beyond anything I'd ever heard.

1. I do not believe this person was deadheading. The FA in question was standing around the gate waiting for his standby to clear. He was last to board. As you said, deadheading crew get positive space.

2. My understanding is that deadheading captains get positive space in J. Everyone else gets positive space Y, and is below revenue upgrades for J.

I wrote in about this because I assumed there had been shenanigans, but it would appear the policy has changed.

Was Y full ? And does a deadheading FA have a J seat as per their collective bargaining agreement ? I thought it was just pilots. The response from AC mentions 'flight crew' so does that mean all flight crew?

The best thing about this response is that AC is basically admitting that nobody can expect to arrive to a destination alert, rested and ready to perform their duty after flying in economy.

Honestly, if they made economy even slightly less unpleasant (like, say, how it was a dozen or so years ago), this wouldn't be such an issue.

Of course everything posted and discussed on FT is 100% factual and gospel about all that is flying and Air Canada / Aeroplan related.

I must be a heretic for even suggesting that there may be the occasional untruth and possible flat out lie posted by some people here! :p


This is part of the issue, you had a "belief" rather than actual knowledge of how/why the FA was traveling, and made an assumption based on that belief rather than making an assertion based on fact. How do you know he was flying standby and not deadheading?

I am not entirely sure of what the current policy is, I have yet to read all of the contracts, but I do see and occasional sit next to (apparently I'm memorable too - hopefully for good reasons) crew members in J on a somewhat regular basis.

I have no real issues with crew in J if seating is available, and not sure why others here have issues with that either.

It is my understanding that "shenanigans" with the upgrade process (based on things you have posted in the past) is not really possible anymore due to the automation of how eUps are processed by the system. No? :confused:

Having said all that, there is one thing I do find interesting about the response from AC. The response mentions AC470 which is the last flight of the day (well, 2nd last if you count AC472 as part of the same travel day) out of YYZ and I know of no flights leaving YOW later than 00:15, so I can not understand why the FA had to deadhead to YOW, other than perhaps for a charter of some sort.

If it has changed it is for the worse. Should FAs that aren't deadheading get J before paying customers? Not in my opinion. I have seen more in uniform FAs in J just in the last few weeks however so there may well have been a change. Kind of ridiculous but I have zero desire to argue with the "pay for it if you want it guaranteed" crowd who don't get that eUps are another form of currency. I would also point out that an FA in J cheapens the cabin (per the intent of Ben's original comment) a lot more than an upgraded customer.

Not at all. But if people believe one thing (and I definitely spoke to multiple people before deciding to write in about this issue), and then an "official" statement is made to contradict that, I'm going to share the statement.

But this is also not relevant to the issue. Based on what everyone other than you seems to believe about upgrades, neither situation would have had the FA in J while there are revenue passengers on the upgrade list.

I don't know he was standby. But I know that he was waiting for a seat. Maybe he had Y, and was waiting for J, or maybe he had nothing.

I sat next to an FA in J on Saturday. I'm not one of the people who says that a P25K flying Tango should be moved to J just because there's an empty J seat.

The difference is the definition of "if seating is available". And I'm quite happy to abide by whatever policy is in place. But deadheading crew trumping eUpgrades on Rapidair basically means that's a route where upgrades will be impossible.

That's true to a point.

But a concierge told me on Saturday they were going to process a standby list manually, because she was unable to attach my Aeroplan number to the booking, which would have drastically affected my standby priority.

The difference now is that it's automated unless interfered with, and as such, there is a lot more auditing.

The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.

I agree with this as well. The issue seems to be that most people here seem to automatically assume a crew member in J is not deadheading.

As have I, however in most cases (all but two that I can recall) the J cabin was not full, so no upgrade opportunity was taken away from a passenger by a crew member sitting in the J cabin.

I don't think it's ridiculous that employees get a seat that no one else is willing to pay for. Also, keep in mind that even though eUps are "currency" they are not a guarantee of getting a J seat and I believe this lack of guarantee is mentioned in the AC documentation.

No eUp opportunity has been lost here (discussing AC470) based on your initial point which stated that deadheading crew in J is acceptable.

That statement just smacks of elitism and class warfare by those whom clearly view uniformed employees as being beneath them and don't want to be associated with "the help" :rolleyes: even though it is "the help" that will (without hesitation) give their life to save your life in the event something bad happens during the flight. ^

It may appear to be elitist to some but it is just a "customers first" attitude. If there are open seats after eUps are processed then have at it with seating staff. I agree with your observations and have consistently and only met wonderful AC employees over the years. On balance they are much nicer and I would far rather sit next to one than many of my fellow passengers. Hopefully that puts the notion of elitism to bed. :)

I'm not sure where you're getting that belief from. The majority of the Rapidair flights I take leave with empty J seats. The only Rapidair flights I have found to be really busy (as in stupid busy, sold out hours before hand) are the last three flights on a Thursday, Friday and Sunday. I have seen very few deadheading crew on any Rapidair flight, but I do see a lot of commuters - although some have taken to flying in/out of YTZ now due to the lower loads.

The AC response seems more of a form letter than a response. It mentions flight crew while the question was about a FA. We all know captains have access to J as part of their contract. The question remains whether deadheading FAs with POS get access to J ahead of eupg.