Disconnect between FA's and PAX
Jun 10, 2016, 4:59 pm
#16
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
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Flew on AC897 (LHRYVR) on June 9 and AC896 on June3. If I were to rate the J cabin staff on a scale of 0 (bad) to 10 (excellent), respectively:
Friendly - 3 and 2
Care level - 2 and 3
Service - 2 and 4
I got thinking about the different perceptions of the PAX and the staff.
The staff are there doing the same thing they always do. It is routine, sometimes irritating, tiring, etc.
For PAX, it may be the trip of lifetime, 1st time in J, first time overseas, honeymoon, business trip, etc.
I really saw this disconnect on 897. An older couple so happy to be in J and taking it all in, another couple snapping photos, a younger girl stunned to be there. There was certainly palpable excitement in some people. Even my girlfriend was excited to be on a new Dreamliner (her comment to me when deplaning at how lame the staff were is what prompted me to start this thread). Then there was myself and some others, where it was more 'routine'.
I felt bad for those that were excited to be there, as the stuff SUCKED. Even the In Charge showed terrific indifference to the PAX. One FA just never moved slightly out of the way for PAX head to the lav...over and over. I thought in my head 'what a b*tch'.
I believe this is what many of us love about Asian and the ME3 airlines. Although a chance it is all just a faceplate....it makes us feel good.
Friendly - 3 and 2
Care level - 2 and 3
Service - 2 and 4
I got thinking about the different perceptions of the PAX and the staff.
The staff are there doing the same thing they always do. It is routine, sometimes irritating, tiring, etc.
For PAX, it may be the trip of lifetime, 1st time in J, first time overseas, honeymoon, business trip, etc.
I really saw this disconnect on 897. An older couple so happy to be in J and taking it all in, another couple snapping photos, a younger girl stunned to be there. There was certainly palpable excitement in some people. Even my girlfriend was excited to be on a new Dreamliner (her comment to me when deplaning at how lame the staff were is what prompted me to start this thread). Then there was myself and some others, where it was more 'routine'.
I felt bad for those that were excited to be there, as the stuff SUCKED. Even the In Charge showed terrific indifference to the PAX. One FA just never moved slightly out of the way for PAX head to the lav...over and over. I thought in my head 'what a b*tch'.
I believe this is what many of us love about Asian and the ME3 airlines. Although a chance it is all just a faceplate....it makes us feel good.
My scoring system would be higher than yours for AC but not as high as ME carriers or Far East carriers. Partly corporate culture. Partly pax expectations. I rate the AC FAs as generally good but probably a better description might be efficient. There have been several FAs and SDs who were way more clued into their pax.
From a comparison, they have been better than NA carriers - yes I know, low standard. I do find UA improving rapidly though still behind.
My significant other just flew to India in J. She flies very infrequently, only on holidays approx 3-4 times a year. She loved the AC 789 and the service on AC but thought AI J was crap. Now the AI metal was old and the trip was 3 hrs international but still.
Staff to pax ratio might also factor in.
AC can do some much better with CRM. Send an email to someone who flew the first time in J. Stuff like that. If corp culture improves, so will morale and front line experience.
Jun 10, 2016, 5:51 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2005
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I flew LHR-YYZ on 14-May in PY on the early flight AC869. My SE100k status was not acknowledged in any way at any time. Service was... meh. Absolutely unremarkable, more like uninterested. Combined with the fact that the meal was breakfast, it was a waste of e-upgrade credits. My bad.
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Jun 10, 2016, 6:19 pm
#19
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Jun 10, 2016, 6:25 pm
#20
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This reminds me of a recent TG F; half empty F, with this older couple who were clearly excited to be going on a trip of a lifetime. Given their age, I felt this really took a lifetime to accrue, perhaps scrimping LH SmileMiles-or-whatever and planning for months, possibly years. The gentleman couldn't sit still for the first hour of the flight. Seatbelt sign goes off, he's walking around, checking out all the other empty seats, taking pictures... I never saw an FA walk up and say "Dude, sit down. You are bothering other pax." These are the pax I gladly let Zone 0 in front of me. Just seeing happy pax around is a good feeling, not pax who are playing forensic evidence detective or lawyering for basic entitlements. AC has a way of getting that righteous response out of me, which is really not a good way to spend 8+ hours. I am accustomed to smiling. I do that more frequently elsewhere.
Even I generally won't fly AC internationally any more unless there's an amazing sale fare. Mind you, if AC PY is pricing the same as lowest Y on most airlines, I'll buy the PY and upgrade. But the last time that happened (for a date/destination that interested me) was 16 months ago
Jun 10, 2016, 9:20 pm
#21
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This is one of those threads where I read the comments and think to myself, whoa this one knows, or wow she nailed it. It's a shame, AC doesn't have an honest discussion with some of you and I don't mean those useless focus groups where the outcomes are practically predecided. I say that not just because I agree with the comments, but because your comments are what AC pays outside consultants to provide. And here you are, providing valuable guidance at no cost to the airline.
Ideally, it would be great if there ever was an honest discussion that representatives from the unions were there.They need to be told what it's like to be a customer on the days the personnel are awful. It would also be great if customers were allowed to tell the personnel first hand how wonderful they were. Nothing motivates and changes bad behavior than being surrounded by those who have positive behavior. AC does not broadcast the examples where customers are appreciative of personnel. Those comment cards don't work. What's needed are actual videos that the employees see and where people can say, thank you.
AC's HR practices are still stuck in the 1970's and it needs to hire some social psychologists to teach its managers how to motivate people.
Ideally, it would be great if there ever was an honest discussion that representatives from the unions were there.They need to be told what it's like to be a customer on the days the personnel are awful. It would also be great if customers were allowed to tell the personnel first hand how wonderful they were. Nothing motivates and changes bad behavior than being surrounded by those who have positive behavior. AC does not broadcast the examples where customers are appreciative of personnel. Those comment cards don't work. What's needed are actual videos that the employees see and where people can say, thank you.
AC's HR practices are still stuck in the 1970's and it needs to hire some social psychologists to teach its managers how to motivate people.
Jun 10, 2016, 9:58 pm
#22
Join Date: Sep 2009
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This is one of those threads where I read the comments and think to myself, whoa this one knows, or wow she nailed it. It's a shame, AC doesn't have an honest discussion with some of you and I don't mean those useless focus groups where the outcomes are practically predecided. I say that not just because I agree with the comments, but because your comments are what AC pays outside consultants to provide. And here you are, providing valuable guidance at no cost to the airline.
Ideally, it would be great if there ever was an honest discussion that representatives from the unions were there.They need to be told what it's like to be a customer on the days the personnel are awful. It would also be great if customers were allowed to tell the personnel first hand how wonderful they were. Nothing motivates and changes bad behavior than being surrounded by those who have positive behavior. AC does not broadcast the examples where customers are appreciative of personnel. Those comment cards don't work. What's needed are actual videos that the employees see and where people can say, thank you.
AC's HR practices are still stuck in the 1970's and it needs to hire some social psychologists to teach its managers how to motivate people.
Ideally, it would be great if there ever was an honest discussion that representatives from the unions were there.They need to be told what it's like to be a customer on the days the personnel are awful. It would also be great if customers were allowed to tell the personnel first hand how wonderful they were. Nothing motivates and changes bad behavior than being surrounded by those who have positive behavior. AC does not broadcast the examples where customers are appreciative of personnel. Those comment cards don't work. What's needed are actual videos that the employees see and where people can say, thank you.
AC's HR practices are still stuck in the 1970's and it needs to hire some social psychologists to teach its managers how to motivate people.
While I am not happy with all aspects of AC, I would rather they improve and be even more successful (for the shareholders, employees and customers) rather than take my business elsewhere. An industry leading airline would be my preference rather than a race to the bottom or blame the unions/ME carriers and everything else. AC is not the preferred carrier for my company, yet I fly AC.
Jun 10, 2016, 10:11 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2013
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I had an AC employee throw an amenity kit at me while sitting at my seat, all the while grumbling about "revenue passengers" (the words used) to the SD. This is after politely asking if indeed he was in the right seat and after the third inquiry realizing his BP said 1D, not 1A. Personally, I just wanted to know where he was supposed to be and offer to switch if he wanted. I probably should complain, come to think of it.
I don't mind the seating that much -- I mean, there aren't really any bad seats in international J -- but the attitude bothers me.
Jun 10, 2016, 10:39 pm
#25
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Speaking of AC employees and seating... what's with that, anyway? Twice in the past year I've found an AC employee in my assigned seat (aka. the seat I deliberately picked when I booked my ticket) and was told that I should sit in the seat which they had been assigned instead.
I don't mind the seating that much -- I mean, there aren't really any bad seats in international J -- but the attitude bothers me.
I don't mind the seating that much -- I mean, there aren't really any bad seats in international J -- but the attitude bothers me.
I have seen some AC employees give up their j overhead space for pax seated in y when the bins are full. That's more rare than common though.
Jun 10, 2016, 10:48 pm
#26
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And they were tickled pink when the SD brought them a bottle of bubbly to enjoy for themselves, and everyone in the cabin in turn raised their glass for a toast
Last edited by kwflyer; Jun 10, 2016 at 10:56 pm
Jun 10, 2016, 11:10 pm
#27
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Quite a few actually. And I've had the privilege of meeting some if them in my travels, including a newly wed gay couple on their honeymoon.
And they were tickled pink when the SD brought them a bottle of bubbly to enjoy for themselves, and everyone in the cabin in turn raised their glass for a toast
And they were tickled pink when the SD brought them a bottle of bubbly to enjoy for themselves, and everyone in the cabin in turn raised their glass for a toast
I have some family who may take their last "real" trip of their life in the next couple years, and given their desired destinations, I fully intend to book them on J.
TATL, I've never had better service than AC, and what you describe is not beyond what I would suspect these AC crews would do.
Jun 10, 2016, 11:44 pm
#28
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: YVR
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You can't change a staff member who takes no pride in their work, doesn't enjoy it, and just goes through the motions.
That alone is probably the most significant difference separating ME3, Cathay, LH, BA, etc etc. from AC. The service is consistently better on those airlines with engaged, friendly, attentive FA's.
Not to say I've never had good service on AC but it is definitely far too consistently mediocre.
Jun 11, 2016, 9:55 am
#30
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