CloudsBelow

Anyone else heard this? Or, Is it already confirmed?
Hearing 767PY will be 2*2*2 with 37/ 38" pitch.

Found this sort of surprising. Haven't been tracking AC's 767 fleet refurb but I assumed most/all would be flipped to Rouge.

Would seem PY returns have been positive thus far for AC

yvr76

Most of the 767s are either getting moved to rouge. Even if they got PY, these seats wouldn't be compatible when they got moved to rouge, as mainline PY would have IFE while rouge PY has streaming.

The last AC investor presentation showed only 5-8 767 aircraft on mainline in 2017 and 2018.

The 333s are getting PY, and according to those slides by Fall 2016 (after the 777 retrofit).

Orcair

On Airliners.net earlier today, longhauler (a 767 captain iirc) stated that some mainline 767s will be getting retrofitted with PY - he recently saw the new ACAP.

Source: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...in/6585337/#27

pitz

Probably at the expense of J seating. That largely doesn't sell anyways.

CloudsBelow

Does he mention when? I heard next Fall but seems A330s will be in then
Totally agree, but heard it actually won't be at expense of J
Who knows

winnipegrev

I'm a bit skeptical just because the mainline 763s are even older than the Rouge ones, and AC plans to retire most by 2017/18 anyway. Then there is the concern of the economy. I bet if this happens, no more than 8 get refurb'd.

Any guesses as to config? I could see 2 rows of J being removed (if the 788 only has 20J...).

18J/18PY/187Y

WR Cage

Before answering the configuration question, the mission for the PE configured 763 needs to be determined.

We have been told there is a need for 5-8 763s for North American ops; YYZ to YVR, YYC, YUL, LAX, SFO. However on these routes there is very little need for both a PE and J product on the same flight.

Are there routes in AC network that are only 763 pax size and therefore not suited for 788/789/333 equipment. The fuel savings for the 788 vs 763 appear to come from larger pax and cargo capacity. However if the additional capacity is not required, then deploying an older 763 makes sense.

I can see the following routes being better suited for the 763 vs 789 (I'm taking the 788 out of the picture because the aircraft appears to be doing Longhaul fleet specific routes like yvr-BNE).
- YOW to LHR & FRA.
- YHZ to LHR.
- YEG to LHR ( if it ever returns).
- YYC to LHR & NRT winter season.

pitz

I'd suggest that not only is there not very little need for both PE and J, but there's a huge need. The J product is too much money for most, but there's a significant chunk that will pay for something a bit more premium than being stuffed into the cheap seats.

Being able to market an end-to-end PE experience is important as well. On a YYC-YYZ-{Europe/India/Mideast} itinerary, if there's no PE available on the first segment, I believe there's a far lesser chance that subsequent segments will be booked PE.

In an ideal world, AC would reconfigure the A320 fleet back into the original 2-3 in the front cabin, and call that "PE" as well so there's continuity between the domestic and the Int'l product (domestic J sales are so low as to be laughable). But the 737 really doesn't lend itself well to such a configuration, and unfortunately that's the way that AC decided to go.

BlueMilk

Domestic J need not be full to be profitable. Indeed, one might conclude, from the way the eUp scheme is balanced, that a half empty J cabins is the optimal solution to profit maximization.

CloudsBelow

Agreed.
763 lowers the price for AC to slot-squat @ LHR.
I'd suggest the 763's last missions at mainline might well be YHZ/YOW-LHR

PLeblond

Phasing out over 24 months...

My money is on the 767s not getting PY.

WR Cage

Idea out of left field, pure speculation on my part; but here is what I would do if my market analysis suddenly determined a need for 190-210 seat longhaul aircraft and/or I had too many 300 seat longhaul aircraft.

Send the 333 to rouge in exchange for an equal number of 763 to remain at mainline. Convert mainline 763 fleet to PE cabin with a smaller J cabin in order to capture non-hub international flying.

cooleddie

I refuse to fly an AC 767 for long-haul unless its interior has been retrofitted / upgraded.

pitz

Half empty J at prices typically 3X lowest-Y (ie: discount-J), isn't even break-even versus converting and selling at Y.

Unless the economy magically and severely comes back to life and concentrates a lot of wealth amongst a relative few, domestic-J is doomed on AC. The sooner they acknowledge this and act accordingly, the sooner they'll improve their status relative to WS. More PE, less J, is a no-brainer.

canadiancow

Selling at Y? Or selling at K?

P is probably three times K.