Air Canada seeks to turn Toronto into premier international hub
Sep 3, 2015, 9:51 pm
#61
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
R u serious? No person in their right mind connects in YYZ unless they absolutely have to. The level of ancillary services, quality and price of said services, and most importantly the dishonourable attitude of staff at YYZ (AC staff, customs officers etc) is incompatible with a first rate airport.
YYZ is a scam airport from the first to the last gate. It pales in comparison with most significant US airports in terms of pretty much anything. Have you been to JFK, ATL or even MSP lately, and see how they have managed to provide a much more interesting environment than YYZ? How can anyone compare YYZ with DXB?
Toronto is not a destination city comparable to Paris, Amsterdam, London or Munich, so AC would need to do this on the strength of transfers alone, and YYZ has only acquired importance because Canada cannot sustain more than one truly international gateway.
Look at the absurd way the trains-terminal train was built: it is out of reach and one needs to go through security again. Cheap cheap cheap only cheap! Everything else is expensive expensive expensive! (get serious: $10 a beer?)
I do not know any flyer from Western Canada who would choose to connect in YYZ unless they had to.
Fir cryin' out loud, some people have strange ideas. YYZ is a hole and is only notorious in terms of passenger traffic for its discomforts and because AC had chosen it as it gateway.
YYZ is a scam airport from the first to the last gate. It pales in comparison with most significant US airports in terms of pretty much anything. Have you been to JFK, ATL or even MSP lately, and see how they have managed to provide a much more interesting environment than YYZ? How can anyone compare YYZ with DXB?
Toronto is not a destination city comparable to Paris, Amsterdam, London or Munich, so AC would need to do this on the strength of transfers alone, and YYZ has only acquired importance because Canada cannot sustain more than one truly international gateway.
Look at the absurd way the trains-terminal train was built: it is out of reach and one needs to go through security again. Cheap cheap cheap only cheap! Everything else is expensive expensive expensive! (get serious: $10 a beer?)
I do not know any flyer from Western Canada who would choose to connect in YYZ unless they had to.
Fir cryin' out loud, some people have strange ideas. YYZ is a hole and is only notorious in terms of passenger traffic for its discomforts and because AC had chosen it as it gateway.
Is San Francisco better the YYZ? No.
Is LAX better that YYZ? No.
Is JFK better than YYZ? No.
Is Newark better than YYZ? No.
Is Philly better that YYZ? No.
Sep 4, 2015, 12:43 am
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
Sep 4, 2015, 5:14 am
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 12,068
Odd - I see quite a few sane looking American passport holders on my Intercontinental flights transiting voluntarily through YYZ.
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
Sep 4, 2015, 8:12 am
#66
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto YYZ UA-1K 1MM,QFgold
Programs: Royal Ambassador/ SPG Platinum 75/Marriott gold
Posts: 14,283
Frequently connect is Seattle. My preference is YYZ, much better hub. The other major US gateways to Europe or Asia are not much better.
Is San Francisco better the YYZ? No.
Is LAX better that YYZ? No.
Is JFK better than YYZ? No.
Is Newark better than YYZ? No.
Is Philly better that YYZ? No.
Is San Francisco better the YYZ? No.
Is LAX better that YYZ? No.
Is JFK better than YYZ? No.
Is Newark better than YYZ? No.
Is Philly better that YYZ? No.
Iah is better than YYZ Yes.
Sep 4, 2015, 8:21 am
#67
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,237
IAH is better, especially new terminal, but A&B are pathetic. As well only Crappy UA lounge in most terminals, but better restaurants ( always stop and have something @ Cat Cora’s )
ORD well if better = crowded, chronic delayed flights,( 9 out ot 10 worst in 2014 linked to ORD) long walks between terminals without out adequate moving sidewalks (working, not working or simply none ) ... sure
ORD well if better = crowded, chronic delayed flights,( 9 out ot 10 worst in 2014 linked to ORD) long walks between terminals without out adequate moving sidewalks (working, not working or simply none ) ... sure
Sep 4, 2015, 8:33 am
#68
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,363
Granted the immigration requirements aren't unique to ORD when talking about US airports.
Sep 4, 2015, 9:31 am
#69
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
I suppose you're right, but the only other way I could think of them fitting it in is cutting off 1 J seat, making it 11A!!??? The curtain setup would be rather weird but that aircraft has 4 singles so they could swap to 3 rows of J (though a bit disjointed) and move 4A to 11A. Which I'd love!
Sep 5, 2015, 11:32 pm
#71
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis PC
Posts: 968
Hmmm, how is it different compared to ORD for example? BTW, if you connect INTL-INTL at ORD T5, you have to clear security again within the same terminal. So what about those glass houses and stones?
Sep 6, 2015, 4:28 am
#72
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 557
Odd - I see quite a few sane looking American passport holders on my Intercontinental flights transiting voluntarily through YYZ.
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
Who would want to change flights in ORD or JFK when AC offers better pricing and an easier transfer.
Sep 6, 2015, 5:57 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
Odd - I see quite a few sane looking American passport holders on my Intercontinental flights transiting voluntarily through YYZ.
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
YYZ is far from perfect, but most American airports are holes in comparison. (and $10 beer doesn't seem so expensive when it only costs Americans $7.50).
waiting for those $300 NYCIST, and $450 LAXHKG tickets to make a comeback.
Sep 6, 2015, 12:24 pm
#74
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan/Hilton Gold/Marriott Bonvoy Titanium/Accor/Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 5,899
I carry a supplemental supply in my bag as often US Customs forms exceed Canadian on European flights.
Sep 6, 2015, 3:04 pm
#75
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,931
1. Compare YYZ to ATL or DTW, where the trains are much much more convenient in terms of accessibility than YYZ. You do have to go through security to access this but remain secure between terminals.
2. I do not deny that some (in fact I know some) US citizens will transit through YYZ, but I know many more Canadians, especially who will avoid it if they can.
Cm'on guys... where are the banks of iPads (like they have near the int'l departure gates), the banks of rechargers at YYZ? not the half-dozen scattered around but the dozens, with reasonable seating?
Most retails charge a huge premium at YYZ for the right to give minimal service. A reasonable lunch at YYZ is $20ish, twice what it is in ORD, ATL or MSP (although the exchange rate skews the exact proportion on a regular basis). I don't suggest it's for everyone but you can get a BigMac meal in ORD or many places for not much of a premium over the regular price (certainly <$10).
YYZ (and to a lesser extend AC itself) is 5-7 years behind many U.S. carriers and U.S. gateways. How can anyone seriously compare YYZ to AMS in terms of variety of food outlets, shopping, and general level of services?
T3 is not exactly premium territory either. Thank God I don't have to go through this any more.
Progress HAS been made, like these nice seating areas sponsored by CIBC, but AC will have to climb a mountain and invest billions to make YYZ competitive as an international gateway. I just think they are so far behind it will be a long battle they will not win.