Is Air Georgian ruining ACs reputation?
Jun 15, 2015, 12:56 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 7
Is Air Georgian ruining ACs reputation?
Hi everyone, long time reader, first time poster.
Since Georgian was awarded the CRJ flying last year, I have been watching the situation with great interest, particularly because I fly regularly between YYZ-YYG. I have noticed a definite deterioration in service reliability since Georgian took over the flying.
In fact, I had a look at the all the Georgian flights yesterday, and it was ugly.
AC7335 YYZ-YYG (47 min delay)
AC7341 YYZ-YYG (almost 12 hours delayed!!!)
AC7340 YYG-YYZ (30 min delay)
AC7338 YYG-YYZ (delayed almost 12 hours. In fact as of writing this is well into the next day and the flight still hasn't departed!)
Worthy to note both Jazz flights on the same day to/from YYG were on time.
Also noteworthy:
AC7331 YYZ-BNA (3 hrs delay)
AC7333 YYZ-BNA (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7330 BNA-YYZ (4 hours delay)
AC7332 BNA-YYZ (over 4 hours delayed)
AC7321 YYZ-MCI (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7320 MCI-YYZ (over 4 hours delayed)
AC7311 YYZ-IND (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7313 YYZ-IND (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7312 IND-YYZ (4 hours delayed)
AC7317 YYZ-RDU (4 hours delayed)
AC7319 YYZ-RDU (1.5 hours delayed...not bad I guess)
AC7316 RDU-YYZ (28 mins delayed, I guess this is impressive)
AC7318 RDU-YYZ (over 5 hours delayed)
AC7329 YYZ-MKE (CANCELLED)
AC7328 MKE-YYZ (CANCELLED)
AC7309 YYZ-DTW (Almost 6 hours delayed)
AC7344 CVG-YYZ (10 hours delayed!!)
AC7324 CVG-YYZ (almost 2 hours delayed)
AC7325 YYZ-CVG (1 hour delayed)
AC7345 YYZ-CVG (2 hours delayed)
This was just from one day (June 14). And based on my experience travelling on Georgian, this is not just a one off either, but a common occurrence.
The question is, why is Air Canada not doing a better job of enforcing standards on its regional partners?
Since Georgian was awarded the CRJ flying last year, I have been watching the situation with great interest, particularly because I fly regularly between YYZ-YYG. I have noticed a definite deterioration in service reliability since Georgian took over the flying.
In fact, I had a look at the all the Georgian flights yesterday, and it was ugly.
AC7335 YYZ-YYG (47 min delay)
AC7341 YYZ-YYG (almost 12 hours delayed!!!)
AC7340 YYG-YYZ (30 min delay)
AC7338 YYG-YYZ (delayed almost 12 hours. In fact as of writing this is well into the next day and the flight still hasn't departed!)
Worthy to note both Jazz flights on the same day to/from YYG were on time.
Also noteworthy:
AC7331 YYZ-BNA (3 hrs delay)
AC7333 YYZ-BNA (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7330 BNA-YYZ (4 hours delay)
AC7332 BNA-YYZ (over 4 hours delayed)
AC7321 YYZ-MCI (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7320 MCI-YYZ (over 4 hours delayed)
AC7311 YYZ-IND (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7313 YYZ-IND (almost 4 hours delayed)
AC7312 IND-YYZ (4 hours delayed)
AC7317 YYZ-RDU (4 hours delayed)
AC7319 YYZ-RDU (1.5 hours delayed...not bad I guess)
AC7316 RDU-YYZ (28 mins delayed, I guess this is impressive)
AC7318 RDU-YYZ (over 5 hours delayed)
AC7329 YYZ-MKE (CANCELLED)
AC7328 MKE-YYZ (CANCELLED)
AC7309 YYZ-DTW (Almost 6 hours delayed)
AC7344 CVG-YYZ (10 hours delayed!!)
AC7324 CVG-YYZ (almost 2 hours delayed)
AC7325 YYZ-CVG (1 hour delayed)
AC7345 YYZ-CVG (2 hours delayed)
This was just from one day (June 14). And based on my experience travelling on Georgian, this is not just a one off either, but a common occurrence.
The question is, why is Air Canada not doing a better job of enforcing standards on its regional partners?
Jun 15, 2015, 1:37 am
#3
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: 100K
Posts: 444
I used to fly to ABE with Air Georgian and they did seem to be late quite often... not to mention the cancelled flights. I always blamed it on weather issues and limitations of the Beechcraft in these conditions...but I guess that wasn't the whole story.
Jun 15, 2015, 7:14 am
#4
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3
HI. AGL is highly exposed to the mid-south US markets and they had a lot of difficult weather this past weekend causing system wide delays for AGL. The aircraft they use for YYG flows through the US markets and back to domestic every day.
AGL also uses older CRJ100 on these markets BUT they are being phased out and are now taking delivery of newer more reliable CRJ200. The old CRJ100 fleet should be out soon.
Not that any of that makes any difference when you are a passenger but they have been in business with Air Canada for almost 20 years so I have confidence they will sort out the fleet issues and the weather is the weather.
AGL also uses older CRJ100 on these markets BUT they are being phased out and are now taking delivery of newer more reliable CRJ200. The old CRJ100 fleet should be out soon.
Not that any of that makes any difference when you are a passenger but they have been in business with Air Canada for almost 20 years so I have confidence they will sort out the fleet issues and the weather is the weather.
Jun 15, 2015, 7:27 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 7
Are you seriously bringing up the weather? Was anyone else taking these massive delays yesterday? As I said it was not just a one off either, I only used yesterday as a "snapshot" example of the issues.
You have confidence they'll fix their issues but it has been well over a year. Meanwhile the communication from AC while the service has been suffering has been lacking...
You have confidence they'll fix their issues but it has been well over a year. Meanwhile the communication from AC while the service has been suffering has been lacking...
Jun 15, 2015, 7:38 am
#6
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Are you seriously bringing up the weather? Was anyone else taking these massive delays yesterday? As I said it was not just a one off either, I only used yesterday as a "snapshot" example of the issues.
You have confidence they'll fix their issues but it has been well over a year. Meanwhile the communication from AC while the service has been suffering has been lacking...
You have confidence they'll fix their issues but it has been well over a year. Meanwhile the communication from AC while the service has been suffering has been lacking...
Jun 15, 2015, 8:39 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 7
I understand delays are a fact of travel, and I do travel a lot and put up with them. That wasn't the point of my post. My post was highlighting the fact that one of ACs regional partners was has a disproportionate amount of operational issues amongst the flights it is responsible to operate. Last year Air Georgian had so many issues with its Charlottetown flights that Air Canada was forced to replace them.
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/News/Lo...onal-carrier/1
It seems like a year later not much has changed. I get that they may be the "new kid on the block", but why should paying customers have to be the guinea pigs while they learn how to operate an airline to the same standard as Jazz or Sky Regional? It shouldn't matter when I board an AC express flight who is operating it, but when one of the carriers has a disproportionate amount of issues, one has to wonder...
Just had a look at the flights today, looks like both of Georgians flights out of YYG have been cancelled and replaced with a mainline E190. Its better service, but still a disruption and a reduction in overall capacity. Nashville is showing a 4 hour delay already.
This has been a recurring pattern...
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/News/Lo...onal-carrier/1
It seems like a year later not much has changed. I get that they may be the "new kid on the block", but why should paying customers have to be the guinea pigs while they learn how to operate an airline to the same standard as Jazz or Sky Regional? It shouldn't matter when I board an AC express flight who is operating it, but when one of the carriers has a disproportionate amount of issues, one has to wonder...
Just had a look at the flights today, looks like both of Georgians flights out of YYG have been cancelled and replaced with a mainline E190. Its better service, but still a disruption and a reduction in overall capacity. Nashville is showing a 4 hour delay already.
This has been a recurring pattern...
Jun 15, 2015, 9:27 am
#8
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3
All AC regional operations into YYZ were a disaster this weekend. And yes, depending on where an express partner is flying they can be more impacted than others. Both Sky and AGL have smaller fleets having Jazz recover is part of the model, no smoking gun there.
Jun 15, 2015, 9:40 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 7
Canadianav,
You sound like you have insider information based on your posts. Do you work for one of the aforementioned carriers?
I looked up the other express carriers for yesterday on the Air Canada app, I see the usual delays (i.e. EWR, JFK..etc) but really nothing in excess of 2 hours like the ones I listed one. Sorry, but what your saying doesn't add up, I'm not convinced.
You sound like you have insider information based on your posts. Do you work for one of the aforementioned carriers?
I looked up the other express carriers for yesterday on the Air Canada app, I see the usual delays (i.e. EWR, JFK..etc) but really nothing in excess of 2 hours like the ones I listed one. Sorry, but what your saying doesn't add up, I'm not convinced.
Jun 15, 2015, 1:30 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,342
My experiences with Air Georgian have been worse than other AC Express partners as well, having some significant controllable delays (4+ hour mechanical, cancellation due to crew constraints).
In some respects, I think they have a harder time because it seems like when YYZ is under constraints due the weather, the smallest destinations, which are often those serviced by Air Georgian, seem to take many of the cancellations. But it seems like their ability to recover from IRROPS is much worse than mainline or Jazz.
In some respects, I think they have a harder time because it seems like when YYZ is under constraints due the weather, the smallest destinations, which are often those serviced by Air Georgian, seem to take many of the cancellations. But it seems like their ability to recover from IRROPS is much worse than mainline or Jazz.
Jun 15, 2015, 9:09 pm
#14
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,920
My experiences with Air Georgian have been worse than other AC Express partners as well, having some significant controllable delays (4+ hour mechanical, cancellation due to crew constraints).
In some respects, I think they have a harder time because it seems like when YYZ is under constraints due the weather, the smallest destinations, which are often those serviced by Air Georgian, seem to take many of the cancellations. But it seems like their ability to recover from IRROPS is much worse than mainline or Jazz.
In some respects, I think they have a harder time because it seems like when YYZ is under constraints due the weather, the smallest destinations, which are often those serviced by Air Georgian, seem to take many of the cancellations. But it seems like their ability to recover from IRROPS is much worse than mainline or Jazz.
I notice the OP's reference to Sky Regional. Well. Sky Regional was the former Sky Service which went bankrupt isn't it? Sky Regional has some nice and easy routes. Hardly comparable. Jazz has more assets to play with than Georgian so it can do better on a weather delay. Georgian was given some stinky routes and the results show.