vernonc

IMHO the benefit of Rouge to AC is due to low staff cost/wages and higher passenger density. This pays on longer flights that require a larger crew complement with a decent passenger load so shorter flights with small planes would not generate sufficient savings.

rehoult

They got a deal that allows for more Rouge, but directly linked to growth of the mainline fleet. Given that, such a change would require them to move those mainline planes somewhere else, and I don't think they are many domestic mainline routes with a higher yield than those two. So I will happily take a bet on YYC/YVR-YYZ, what date were you thinking?

ridefar

Will AC generate incrementally more profit by reducing costs on low revenue low profit routes or by doing so on high revenue high profit routes. If the answer is the latter then YYZ-YVR rouge is inevitable.

ridefar

Does mainline include Jazz and AG for purposes of calculating fleet size? What is the new correlation? For every mainline plane/seat they can add a rouge plane/seat?

rehoult. 3 years? But does it really matter if it is 2 or 5? If rouge is about readucing costs for AC then every route that doesn’t require a lie flat should go that way as far as a shareholder or manager is concerned.

The Lev

If ULCC start to take a bite out of AC's revenue on these routes, you may see Rouge make an appearance.

In addition, don't confuse average/total route yield with specific flight yield. If I were a betting man, I'd say that typically the yield on the noon westbound YYZ-YVR is significantly lower than the 8:00 AM and 6:00 PM departures. Ditto for the 13:45 and 22:30 eastbound departures YVR-YYZ. I could easily see a scenario where AC runs a couple of rouge flights a day on these "core" routes at times that are not very popular with business travellers.

ridefar

+1.

Further as I mentioned above it is not whether a route and time has high yield or not. It is wether the net improvement from a route and time is greater than the net improvement from a different route and time due to rouge-ification. The longer the route, the more seats the route has, the more lowering your CASM matters.

rehoult

Mainline only includes the AC E90+ jets. No rouge, no Jazz, no Sky-whatever.

The ULCC will be dealt with via ULCC fare families on both AC and Rouge.

Running a split route is very difficult, as it nearly always forces you to discount your LCC brand. Nobody wants to pay the same for the LCC as the mainline, and you're shoving the difference in their face. Whereas when you change an entire route, you can just change the plane and leave the prices the same (i.e. what they've done on every single Rouge route). Beyond that, it's a crewing nightmare, as pilots/crew can't be swapped between flights in IRROPS.

Not to say that long-term we won't see major routes moved over, but they are the hardest to deal with, and there is no good reason to take on that task until you've picked all the YYJ-wherever routes. Add to that the huge 737 purchase, long-term pilot and FA union contracts, and you've got all the reasons I don't expect to see the trunk routes moved to Rouge anytime soon.

As for whether its 2 or 3 or 5 or whatever years? I'd say that matters a lot to the people flying it.

longtimeflyin

As alluded to in another thread, I recently found out a close friend of the family is a AC mainline FO for the 319/320/321.

We only briefly talked today, but I was talking to him about the whole deadheading policy for captains. He told me that as long as there is positive J space, then FOs can also book and confirm their seat.

I was surprised and I didn't really continue on the whole "interrogate the AC pilot" game since it was a family gathering.

Any more details on this?

canadiancow

That's always been the case.

Captains are GUARANTEED J when deadheading.

Deadheading first officers (and flight attendants) get J if there is any left after processing eUpgrades.

longtimeflyin

My understanding is that FOs now are guaranteed J when deadheading and that was the latest change.

As in, they are processed before eUpgrades.

gregster

Correct, this is part of the new agreement per some discussion on a pilot forum I follow.

canopus27

Because who cares about paying passengers anyway?

Much better to process staff upgrades before passenger upgrades.

longtimeflyin

superelitelivesdontmatter

ridefar

It is fitting that they are putting customers second on mainline in order to get a contract that allows they to expand a subsidiary that makes flying an awful experience for more customers.

God almighty this country needs some competition in the airline business.

Note: "awful experience" in terms of hard product. rouge FAs are actually really good in my experience.

Jumper Jack

Why would you guys have a problem with FO taking a J seat???
FA is one thing I can understand.. but someone who flies the plane, really??