I think someone already mentioned this some time ago but I just checked on itn and YEG-YWG has been dropped from mainline. This means that if one wants to fly to Thunder Bay, northern Manitoba or to ORD etc.. through YWG an extra connection in YYC is now needed. Is this really a good idea?? This will also be a big problem for Saskatchewan pax going west as they will not be able to use the non-stop Tango flights to connect in YVR.


Just as an aside in glancing at the YEG-YYZ summer sched there are 8 mainline and one Tango flight. Comment on the mainline is that it seems odd to have a flight to YYZ at 12:05pm and 12:50pm, then at 3:00pm and 5:35pm. I wish they would bring back the 4:30pm (instead of one of the noon flights), it was always quite full. Also from YYZ please give us an early morning flight like last year, 8:45 am is a bit late.

[Not that I'm flying AC just yet ]

One of my regular trips is YOW-YWG, evening flights both ways. Starting in May, the outbound evening flight will be switched to Tango; the return will remain mainline. Since the Tango flight times for the return segment are earlier in the day (early morning for the non-stop flight, noon for the silly flight stopping in Windsor of all places), my choices will be to connect through YYZ for the outbound flight on the mainline (yuck!), or buy a very expensive one-way ticket for the return on the mainline (not going to happen). I'm wondering if they'll allow me to use points and fly Tango outbound and mainline return.

I fly in Y and meal service was scrapped on this route a long time ago, so the only difference will be the colour of the plane. And the fact that I can't buy a return ticket for the flights I want. Oh yes, and no Q-miles on Tango.

Unfortunately, West Jet's return schedule also doesn't work for me.

I'm wondering if they'll allow me to use points and fly Tango outbound and mainline return.


I've been previously advised NO - no mixing of Tango and mainline. Your example shows further reasons why someone at AC really needs to look at this as its causing problems for passengers that see mainline flights vanish and are unable to use the Tango flights.

It strikes me that for the summer, AC believes it travellers between YWG and YOW will be primarily price conscious tourists, and not business people or MPs. This dictates more seats in all-economy configuration, and anyone wishing full service and/or more frequency can get that on the mainline using the YYZ hub. [That's what hubs and spokes are all about.] It doesn't make sense to fly an aircraft with a J cabin on a route that will likely never see a paying J passenger? Particularly when you have a half dozen flights leaving 200-miles away with lots of J seats to be filled.

Maybe Empress should suggest to Aeroplan that for an extra $10, TANGO fliers can get their miles credited as Q-miles, just another add on in the spirit of this carrier.

It's a good suggestion, although I suspect at this point Stu is more concerned about not being able to buy an outbound non-stop as part of a return ticket, than whether he gets status miles, or has a chance at an upgrade.

What's going to happen if they end up with only one mainline flight each way, and one of them isn't useable? No one's going to pay the one-way fare on mainline, and one-way on tango coming back, so then what? I can see the mainline flights being full of tourists, who have flexibility in when they fly, while the tango flights fill up with businesspeople who (like Stu) can't work with the mainline one way.

What AC may have to do, is offer a cheap one-way fare on mainline if you also buy a one-way on tango.

andrew

Yes, Andrew, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't really care about Q-miles (especially with the new Aeroplan) and I will not be upgraded on the fares I buy, but I do care about being able to fly YOW-YWG without doubling the travel time by connecting through YYZ. I'd be quite happy if they switched both non-stop flights to Tango. I'm sure there are plenty of other like me, so switching only one flight defies logic.

Maybe AC could set up a mainline return ticket that allows passengers to book one segment on Tango, space permitting.

The point is there is not enough traffic of the type to support a year round non-stop, so AC alters the schedule during the summer months for the very reason I described. Until city pairs can support non-stop, they won't get it. The hard cruel reality of dollars and cents dictates scheduling decisions. It is not as if there will be no return service to YWG in the late afternoon, it is just routed through YYZ, as is most west-bound traffic in the late day. This is more cost-effective for AC. And for the time being, those are the grounds scheduling decisions are being made on.

Maybe the Daily Izzies will write a national editorial about the sorry state of air service into/out of YWG ever since he left the AC board of directors?

[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 03-11-2002).]

But there have been twice daily nonstops YOW-YWG for as long as I can remember. I don't think this is something AC has done just for the summer; the Tango flights are advertised as a year-round service. I think this decision has more to do with the fact that West Jet flies this route, although their aircraft stop in Hamilton.

This will become more and more of a problem as the "new" Tango routes replace mainline routes. For example, if you want to fly nonstop between Regina or Saskatoon and Vancouver after May, you must fly Tango. Same with Winnipeg to Edmonton. All mainline flights from Toronto to Regina/Saskatoon will serve both cities, meaning half the passengers will have to make a stop; the non-stop flights will be Tango. The Tango flights are replacing mainline routes, not providing new service.

But even though some Tango flights will be preferable to the mainline flights, you cannot connect to them without buying a separate ticket and transferring your baggage yourself. It makes no sense.

[This message has been edited by StuMcIlwain (edited 03-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by StuMcIlwain (edited 03-11-2002).]

But as I read Stu's post (I haven't checked the schedule), there are still non-stops, it's just that some non-stops are tango and some are mainline, and it isn't possible to combine onto one ticket. Which is okay for the tango half, but not the mainline.

If they changed all the non-stops to tango, Stu could buy two one-way tango tickets. If they allowed a mixture, Stu could fly out on tango and back on mainline on one return ticket. But as it stands, Stu is faced with a one-way tango ticket going to Winnipeg, and a one-way mainline ticket coming back. My guess is he'll end up on tango both ways since going somewhere is usually more time-critical than coming home.

andrew

Here are the non-stop options with two arbitrary dates (YOW-YWG on 3/6, YWG-YOW on 10/6):

So there are still two non-stops each way, as there have always been, but it isn't possible to buy a discount return on all permutations -- and ironically, it's the traveller who needs flexibility who's hurt the most!

To get a cheap ticket,

• You can fly out on the morning flight and back on the evening flight (mainline, cheap ticket)
• You can fly out on the evening flight and back on the morning flight (tango one-way tickets)
• But you can't fly out on the evening flight and back on the evening flight, or out on the morning flight and back on the morning flight, because it would require a full "Y" ticket on the mainline (the tango half of the itinerary would be the same price).

Having decided you want the evening tango flight westbound (for scheduling, not for price or anything else), you're forced to stay overnight and take the morning tango flight back to Ottawa (or pay full Y).

Being forced onto tango in this case has nothing to do with prices or the ability to buy a one-way ticket; ironically it's the business traveller who has less flexiblity on the outbound segment who _has_ to take the "leisure" carrier, and the leisure traveller, who probably has more flexibility on flight times, who ends up on mainline when they sell off the seats.

andrew


[This message has been edited by Andrew Webber (edited 03-11-2002).]

In the latest version of the timetable, AC has restored the evening mainline flight YOW-YWG by reducing the frequency of YWG-YVR. So I'm happy ... I don't have to use Tango for my domestic flights (yet).

Wonder if they will really be able to fill three 737 aircraft per day on this route (2 mainline, 1 Tango). Loads have been a bit thin lately with just the 2 aircraft except at peak travel times.