nave888

I couldn't find if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering if anyone knew which fare bucket LMUs came from?

I know it isn't R space, so is it Z? D? C? J?? I'd guess C or D, as I imagine AC would want to hold some space for misconnects, etc....

If it's been discussed, just point me in the right direction! If not, any insights would be appreciated!

rehoult

It's outside of the normal fare class system, which they are able to do because it's only offered on their website. So you can never tell from the fare buckets if it will be offered for sure.

OTOH, if you purchase an LMU, it changes your booking to R.

calligow

I've always thought LMU doesn't change your fare class, but the availability depends on R? When you have an international Tango ticket and you purchase LMU, won't you only get 50% miles as per your original booking?

rehoult

Correct on the mileage accrual. R is the catch-all 'upgrade' bucket and points are accrued at the original rate. However, the system needs somewhere to put you so that you show up as a J pax, and the solution is to change your bucket to R, same as an e-upgrade.

xLuther

Original ticket mileage

Last Minute Upgrade Purchase - Terms and conditions

Prices are based on each individual flight segment for which a Last Minute Upgrade Purchase is requested.
Last Minute Upgrades are not available on all flights and markets and subject to availability in the Executive cabin.
Prices vary by flight and by market and will only be determined and presented to the customer during the check-in process. The customer will have final purchase decision for all eligible flight segments of his itinerary.
The Last Minute Upgrade Purchase fee is subject to all applicable taxes.
The Last Minute Upgrade Purchase fee is not refundable.
Passengers accumulate mileage, including Air Canada status mileage, as per original fare option they purchased.
Air Canada cannot guarantee to provide Executive Class/Executive First meal service to customers who make a Last Minute Upgrade Purchase.

nave888

R makes sense because you get original fare class restrictions/mileage

but....if there was R space, wouldn't eupgrades clear? I have had plenty of flights that I'm waitlisted for or not even trying that I know for a fact are R0, but offer LMU.

So does the availability come out of another bucket (ie. C/D/Z), but get ticketed as R after purchase?

I'm just starting to get really low on eupgrade credits and am thinking that if the right opportunity presented itself....i may be tempted to pay up!

Clipper801

j_the_p wrote with certainty in this thread (post #291) that LMU would not come out of R.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...-games-20.html

He/she might not have bought LMU before but the booking class changed to R once the purchase is completed.

Clipper801

It's a function of computer programming.

AC can dynamically programme the frequency that its system would check the waitlist to R availability.

One probable scenario is that AC programmed its computer software simply not to check when it is less than 24 hours to departure.

If one has easy access to the Internet and the time to do so during the upgrade window, one can call AC reservation or signs in online if one sees R>0 to grab it.

It is also possible that LMU comes out of the J inventory and automatically creates/converts to new R inventory on completion of the purchase. This will be little different from converting a regular seat to reward seat via IKK.

This is of course a pure speculation but certainly quite easily doable by AC.

There is no reason for AC to confirm the eUpgrade if it can sell those J seats through LMU.

j_the_p

To clarify (I re-read my post and I didn't think it was overly clear), what I meant was, R can = 0 and LMU can still be sold (as is the case with most of my flights). So if your booking class changes to R when you purchase a LMU, that doesn't necessarily mean that R was > 0 prior to purchasing it. It just means that your booking class was changed to R.

km101

I upgraded with a LMU recently, My new ticket showed online as executive flexable. It began life as a Tango, and I seriously doubt the actual flexability of the ticket.

jlionw

So just to clarify, LMU for a Tango ticket will not give you status miles?

Can anyone confirm, or is it speculation?

rehoult

I can confirm that LMU will not get you status miles on a domestic/transborder Tango ticket.

rehoult

There seems to be confusion between LMU 'coming from' a bucket, as opposed to what the ticket shows afterwards. Hopefully I can explain a little...

The buckets we are all used to dealing with are those distributed on the various GDS. They exist to provide all the different vendors with accurate information to book tickets. As whether an upgrade can be confirmed immediately or not can be key to the sale of certain tickets (Latitude anytime, and T+ within the window) that information is also distributed through the GDS with the R bucket. This is why we are all used to considering the GDS final word on availability. However, because LMU are sold solely by AC, they don't have to, and hence don't, publish any information about its availability in GDS.

For example, a flight could be J0R0Y0 and still offer LMU. Why? Well because the flight could be +14J/-14Y and AC isn't willing to oversell it. In such a situation it's also likely there would be positive R space, but there wouldn't have to be. AC can turn LMU on and off on any flight without impacting what is seen on a GDS.

"But my ticket shows R after! It must have come from there!". Not quite. AC needs some method to change your ticket into a business class ticket after you purchase an LMU. As tickets are marked in the system by bucket, this means they need to change the fare bucket to a business class one. Rather than create a new bucket, AC choose to move LMU tickets into the R bucket that they'd already created for upgrades. If R=0 when you purchase the LMU, the system simultaneously opens an R space and assigns your ticket to it (which is why it doesn't trigger the waitlist).

Such functionality exists elsewhere in the system too. For instance, for a same-day change, you are limited only by seat availability, it need not be available in your original bucket. However, if only full-Y is open, AC doesn't want your ticket changed to Y, they want it to show the original bucket. So the same-day change function in the airport system will open the bucket and immediately put you in it.

PointWeasel

I had to read it twice, but thank you. ^

This makes sense to me but ethically, should AC offer LMUs when there is a waitlist of SEs, Es and Ps potentially on the upgrade list already patiently waiting? Thats what concerns me.

If there are 24 J seats, and at the T-24 mark there are 9 left which 7 on the waitlist for an upgrade, then by all means, AC can offer the LMU for 2 pax, but all 9 offered for LMU? That's sketchy to me.

rehoult

While, I'm sure pretty much everyone here would prefer they not screw upgrades chances, I think we'd all be happy if they'd just disclose their priority system in a clear, public manner. As this board has proven 100s of times, confusion breeds contempt.