Re-use of credit from a previous ticket
Jul 6, 2011, 9:46 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: A3 *G, Marriott Plat, AS 75K
Posts: 995
Re-use of credit from a previous ticket
Just spoke with three different agents with the exact same outcome: "this is what the computer calculated, computers cannot be wrong, therefore you'll have to pay up sir. "
Old ticket:
Base Fare: $924.01
Surcharges: $164.99
Fuel Surcharge: $190.00
Taxes, Fees and charges: $56.45
-----------------------------------------
Total: $1335.45
Newticket:
Base Fare: $943.85
Surcharges: $4.15
Fuel Surcharge: $250.00
Taxes, Fees and charges: $107.38
-----------------------------------------
Total: $1305.38
1) Agent says the difference in fare is ~$110 (250+107.38-190-56.45)
2) Agent says "surcharges" on her computer are grouped together with the 'base fare', so they do not enter into the fare difference calculation. So basically I am at at a total loss of $150 because the previous 'surcharges' were so high. On ac.com, Base fare and surcharges are displayed separately, am I wrong to assume that 'surcharges' are not part of the base fare?!
3) It was my understanding that the Base Fare is not refundable, but everything else is recalculated when credits are applied. Am I wrong again?
Old ticket:
Base Fare: $924.01
Surcharges: $164.99
Fuel Surcharge: $190.00
Taxes, Fees and charges: $56.45
-----------------------------------------
Total: $1335.45
Newticket:
Base Fare: $943.85
Surcharges: $4.15
Fuel Surcharge: $250.00
Taxes, Fees and charges: $107.38
-----------------------------------------
Total: $1305.38
1) Agent says the difference in fare is ~$110 (250+107.38-190-56.45)
2) Agent says "surcharges" on her computer are grouped together with the 'base fare', so they do not enter into the fare difference calculation. So basically I am at at a total loss of $150 because the previous 'surcharges' were so high. On ac.com, Base fare and surcharges are displayed separately, am I wrong to assume that 'surcharges' are not part of the base fare?!
3) It was my understanding that the Base Fare is not refundable, but everything else is recalculated when credits are applied. Am I wrong again?
Jul 6, 2011, 9:58 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MAN
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,205
That "surcharges" number on the original ticket seems obscenely high. I am left to wonder if this is the result of that super-sneaky, basically fraudulent "Peak Travel Premium" that I complained about to the Competition Bureau. When the surcharge figure gets that high, I'm at a loss for how you get there except if it's that PTP charge. (Unless the old ticket involved a departure from LHR with their sky-high departure tax?)
Can you please provide the origin, destination and date (or approximate date)? Also, I think you are entitled to a detailed breakdown of the surcharges and if I were you I would demand to know what every penny of that $164.99 consists of.
Can you please provide the origin, destination and date (or approximate date)? Also, I think you are entitled to a detailed breakdown of the surcharges and if I were you I would demand to know what every penny of that $164.99 consists of.
Jul 6, 2011, 10:02 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: A3 *G, Marriott Plat, AS 75K
Posts: 995
That "surcharges" number on the original ticket seems obscenely high. I am left to wonder if this is the result of that super-sneaky, basically fraudulent "Peak Travel Premium" that I complained about to the Competition Bureau. When the surcharge figure gets that high, I'm at a loss for how you get there except if it's that PTP charge. (Unless the old ticket involved a departure from LHR with their sky-high departure tax?)
Can you please provide the origin, destination and date (or approximate date)? Also, I think you are entitled to a detailed breakdown of the surcharges and if I were you I would demand to know what every penny of that $164.99 consists of.
Can you please provide the origin, destination and date (or approximate date)? Also, I think you are entitled to a detailed breakdown of the surcharges and if I were you I would demand to know what every penny of that $164.99 consists of.
New ticket is: YVR-HKG-LAS in Sept/Oct, ie - low season.
Souvlaki, what is PTP?
Jul 6, 2011, 10:12 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MAN
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,205
I call it a fraud because it is a demand-based surcharge that is in addition to the base fare, which is already subject to variation in response to supply and demand. Notice that there is no definition on the page as to when the PTP will apply, how much it is, how it will be calculated, etc. It is a truly arbitrary charge that is designed to be buried in among things such as YQ, NAV and AIF. For more, see these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l-premium.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...on-bureau.html
Jul 6, 2011, 10:30 pm
#5
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MAN
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,205
Dummy booking YVR-HKG (Dec 20) PEK-YVR (Dec 30):
Base Fare (SHCG,SHXCNT) 1097.00
Surcharges 15.00
Dummy booking YVR-HKG (Dec 20) PEK-YVR (Jan 4):
Base Fare (SHCG,SHXCNT) 1097.00
Surcharges 165.00
etc.
Fare conditions are as follows. Note arbitrary surcharge between Jan 1-10, in boldface, which explains the higher surcharge for returning in January. I think this is deliberate deception and hiding of a portion of the base fare in amongst the NAV, AIF etc. I think this is fraud, plain and simple.
Surcharges:
From: Vancouver, BC (YVR - Vancouver Int'l)
To: Hong Kong, (HKG - Hong Kong Int'l)
Fare Basis Code: SHCG
FCL: SHCG TRF: 864 RULE: ACFR BK: S
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XEX-REGULAR EXCURSION
SU.SURCHARGES
NONE UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
From: Beijing, (PEK - Beijing Capital)
To: Vancouver, BC (YVR - Vancouver Int'l)
Fare Basis Code: SHXCNT
FCL: SHXCNT TRF: 864 RULE: ACFR BK: S
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XPX-INSTANT PURCHASE EXCURSION
SU.SURCHARGES
BASE FARE
BETWEEN CHINA AND CANADA
IF INFANT UNDER 02 WITHOUT A SEAT.
THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL PER DIRECTION.
ORIGINATING CHINA -
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA TRANSPACIFIC
SECTORS ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
AC FLIGHT 0032
AC FLIGHT 0088
A SURCHARGE OF CNY 300.0 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL.
OTHERWISE
ORIGINATING CHINA -
THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL PER DIRECTION
ORIGINATING CANADA INBOUND -
A SURCHARGE OF CAD 150.00 WILL BE ADDED TO THE
APPLICABLE FARE FOR SEASONAL TRAVEL FROM 20AUG THROUGH
07SEP
OR - A SURCHARGE OF CAD 150.00 WILL BE ADDED TO THE
APPLICABLE FARE FOR SEASONAL TRAVEL FROM 01JAN
THROUGH 10JAN.
Base Fare (SHCG,SHXCNT) 1097.00
Surcharges 15.00
Dummy booking YVR-HKG (Dec 20) PEK-YVR (Jan 4):
Base Fare (SHCG,SHXCNT) 1097.00
Surcharges 165.00
etc.
Fare conditions are as follows. Note arbitrary surcharge between Jan 1-10, in boldface, which explains the higher surcharge for returning in January. I think this is deliberate deception and hiding of a portion of the base fare in amongst the NAV, AIF etc. I think this is fraud, plain and simple.
Surcharges:
From: Vancouver, BC (YVR - Vancouver Int'l)
To: Hong Kong, (HKG - Hong Kong Int'l)
Fare Basis Code: SHCG
FCL: SHCG TRF: 864 RULE: ACFR BK: S
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XEX-REGULAR EXCURSION
SU.SURCHARGES
NONE UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
From: Beijing, (PEK - Beijing Capital)
To: Vancouver, BC (YVR - Vancouver Int'l)
Fare Basis Code: SHXCNT
FCL: SHXCNT TRF: 864 RULE: ACFR BK: S
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XPX-INSTANT PURCHASE EXCURSION
SU.SURCHARGES
BASE FARE
BETWEEN CHINA AND CANADA
IF INFANT UNDER 02 WITHOUT A SEAT.
THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL PER DIRECTION.
ORIGINATING CHINA -
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA TRANSPACIFIC
SECTORS ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
AC FLIGHT 0032
AC FLIGHT 0088
A SURCHARGE OF CNY 300.0 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL.
OTHERWISE
ORIGINATING CHINA -
THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL PER DIRECTION
ORIGINATING CANADA INBOUND -
A SURCHARGE OF CAD 150.00 WILL BE ADDED TO THE
APPLICABLE FARE FOR SEASONAL TRAVEL FROM 20AUG THROUGH
07SEP
OR - A SURCHARGE OF CAD 150.00 WILL BE ADDED TO THE
APPLICABLE FARE FOR SEASONAL TRAVEL FROM 01JAN
THROUGH 10JAN.
Jul 6, 2011, 10:44 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: A3 *G, Marriott Plat, AS 75K
Posts: 995
It does seem like PTP was the cause of the high surcharge for my original ticket... doubt I'll get them back so I guess I'll probably cancel the original ticket for $200 since the change fees will come out to approximately the same..
Jul 6, 2011, 11:12 pm
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
Any results?..
Did CB respond to you?
Jul 7, 2011, 12:15 am
#8
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MAN
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,205
Yeah I got a boilerplate "we have to investigate" note from them. I'm not the only one who complained and to my mind the tactic is so brutally fraudulent I'm just agog that so few people seem bothered by it. This is one surcharge that makes YQ look perfectly above-board by comparison.
Jul 7, 2011, 12:19 am
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
Yeah I got a boilerplate "we have to investigate" note from them. I'm not the only one who complained and to my mind the tactic is so brutally fraudulent I'm just agog that so few people seem bothered by it. This is one surcharge that makes YQ look perfectly above-board by comparison.
Keep us posted on any Competition Bureau feedback..