Useless systemwides?!
 

Since I am going for AC Elite this year (as some of you might recall) I called Aeroplan to ask what kind of upgrade certs they would send me since I live in Denmark - and when (I have 29.000 Qmiles now).

I was told that they did not send out Prestige kits mid-year but they would send out a package when I qualified for Elite.
Also, worse, they told me, that I would be sent systemwides good for upgrade on the following classes:
Y

and

Y

and

Y

Hmm. Y? Y? Why, why, why? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
A Y ticket costs a fortune - so I'll have no use for these certs.

What do I do?

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Goldlust

That's all Elites get unfortunately. No different over here. All Elites get systemwides from Y/M fares. You should also get some North American upgrade certificates that are good from V class fare and higher.

To get systemwides from V class fare, you need to become Super Elite. This is no different than most ff programs that I know. Only top tier flyers get systemwides from any (or at least some discount fares).

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US Airways is the exception http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I thought Aeroplan only sends out Elite Systemwides to non-NAmerican members since it assumes they will have no need for the NAmerican "almost any fare" upgrades. I don't know why you should be expecting anything more, Goldlust? If you could show you do make a lot of intra-Canada/U.S. trips on AC, I am sure they would send you NAmerican upgrades instead.

As I have noted in the past, Aeroplan's elite tiers are actually customized to meet the needs of those travel patterns most likely to yield the appropriate status. Elite is achieveable quite easily by doing a few intercontinental trips, but its benefits are tailored primarily to the NAmerican traveller. It is deemed most likely that an Elite will have earned the status by doing a lot of NAmerican travel -- and maybe an intercontinental trip or two -- and thus benefits like NAmerican "almost any fare" upgrades are considered quite appropriate to their primary need. As is MLL access, and STARGold benefits when travelling outside Canada. The Systemwides are thrown in as an additional perk, to be used or not on NAmerican or interncontinental routes. [I suspect this is why AC gives STARGold to this level of traveller, knowing it is not as essential in their travel patterns, but acknowledging they have still achieved top tier status appropriate to their pattern of travel.]

SElite status cannot really be earned just doing NAmerican travel unless you are a Member of Parliament who crosses the country just about every other week. Thus the benefits of upgrading from "almost any fare" Systemwide are considered appropriate to the needs of these primarily intercontinental travellers. But can also be used by any domestic travellers who happen to have this frequency of travel.

I assume you picked Aeroplan as a program based on the premise that it required the least amount of travel [35K Q-miles versus 50K] to reach Elite status, and thus have access to STAR Gold benefits. Which is fine, but what other benefits could you expect for so little travel internationally? It really seems the LH or even UA programs might have given you the benefits you really want, though I don't know if LH provides upgrades as liberally as even AC, and UA's upgrades until you reach 1K are similar to AC's in fare requirement on intercontinental flights, I believe. [BB is the expert on such things.]

AC is not going to give away its J class seats on its most lucrative routes to just anybody. That's why they require a Y fare until you reach SElite. Whatever gave you the idea you would get "almost any fare" upgrades at the Elite level to begin with? Not from anything we've posted. And why should you get treated differently than the rest of us NAmerican-based Elites?

So look at the bright side, you will hold Elite status through Feb 2002, as well as through Feb 2003. Which means you have STAR Gold for almost two full years. And if you happen to be on an oversold transAtlantic flight in the back cabin, you are most likely to get an operational upgrade over non-status travellers. And this could also apply to other STAR carrier flights that need to find people to upgrade. I figure these benefits are appropriate for having spent under $3K to achieve.

But then you only get 2 with US as a middle tier flyer and then there are no more (unlike SE's who get 2 every 10k status miles). I guess Chairman's Preferred (top tier) get 4 but 2 of them are only good for a companion.

But US's North American upgrade program is much more generous than AC's.

Consider this ...

LHR-YYZ-LHR in Y class fare = $1616
LHR-YYZ-LHR in J class fare = $7811

A s/w upgrade saves a lot of money. They are definitely not useless. In this case two s/w coupons are worth $6195 !!!!

[edited to correct figures]

[This message has been edited by After Burner (edited 04-01-2001).]

LH gives one systemwide (ie 2 European) upgrade for every 100k status miles! You can, however, purchase upgrades with miles (only 20k for one-way to Europe!)

That's true BlondeBomber. While in terms of eligible fares, US is the most generous, but then it's only good for one round trip. I suppose the only way one could clean up is by earning Silver, get the kit, then earn Gold, get the kit, then earn Chairman's Preferred, get the kit.

While US carriers in general have a more liberal upgrade policy, AC makes up for it by including lounge access. The value in that alone can be as high as US$450/yr.

Goldlust... if you don't wan't them I'll take them off your hands http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So FlyerAl, April Fool's jokes aside (see US Air thread about cancellation of UA merger), do you see any change in your travel loyalties if US merges with UA and the systemwide upgrades for Gold and the N. American upgrades revert to a UA system?

Is it all dependent on what airlines fly most convenent schedules on the routes you fly or do you base it significanly on ff scheme benefits?

BlondeBomber, yes I thought that was a funny joke on the US board. Wishful thinking indeed http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I have mixed feelings about the merger. Is it so necessary for UA to buy the airline in order to have a strong north-south network on the East Coast? UA could certainly expand IAD operations to achieve that. Will UA really make full use out of hubs in PIT, PHL, and CLT? I also have a hard time believing US executives that this merger is detrimental to the airline's survival. US was doing well on its own - nice new Airbus aircraft, International expansion, and a generous frequent flyer program. If they wanted to have a fully national route network, they could've achieved that by merging with HP. But unfortunately, US' executives are eager to sell so they can make a quick buck before retiring. Whatever happened to the days when airlines were run by people passionate about the industry?

On the other hand, US benefits by joining a global alliance - something they lacked since the break-up with BA. In terms of FF benefits, I'm hoping that if the merger goes through, the systemwides US provides to all their elite members would be valid on UA flights (SYD, here I come http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ) But I'll miss the ease of claiming awards on US (waved blackout dates for elites), and the friendly, small airline atmosphere that currently exists.

At this point it's hard to say if this will affect my loyalty to the airline. I'm using last year's SWUs to fly YYZ-PHL-FCO in May, then I'm flying on a real cheap BUF-BWI ticket in June, and I have planned an award res for YHM-PIT-LAS in December. If UA maintains the routes and fares after the merger, I may consider them - but my heart will always lie with AA http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dear Shareholder. Thank you for replying to my message. I seem to have inadvertently offended someone in some way. That certainly was not my intention. My sole intention was to show my lack of satisfaction with the fact that the certificate can only be used if flying Y class - not even M anymore.
As stated in other posts by e.g. stargold AC will gladly exchange European AC Elite's systemwides with NA certificates. And clearly no history of flights in North America is necessary.

I am sure that is a sound theory.

...and the money or will to buy an international Y class fare.

I disagree strongly that flying more than 35.000 miles a year is little. If AC thought that was "little" they surely would not award people Elite status for flying this amount.


With all possible respect: I am 19 and although I am also Shareholder (who does not own stocks these days) I do not have unlimited financial abilities. I am at least doing okay for my age I would say. The difference here being that I do not aggressively assault people of less income than myself verbally when they express sadness with regards to the fact that their limited money prevents them from taking advantage of certain offers. You write as though I have attacked you or this board in some way. I fail to see how that could be the case in any way - and how you could possibly think that. I guess I am being treated differently than North American AC members since we get different certificates. I think the question you wanted to ask was "Why should you be treated better than the rest of us North American-based Elites?" The answer is of course: I should not. What on earth gave you the idea that I thought so? Certainly not from anything I've written. I've tried to be nice to everybody here and I enjoyed meeting many from FT at the Do in NYC recently. Also, I have not written that I had any idea that I would be able to upgrade from V and H fares as Elite - I am actually quite aware that only SE are able to do so. My sadness was with regards to AC taking the M booking class off the certificate. Also, I almost take offence to you referring to people like me as "anybody." When I make Elite I will be as much Elite as everybody else.

With regards to J class seats I guess I have misunderstood - have a little tolerance for a newbie. I was under the impression that upgrades were only given on a space available basis and as such would not really preclude potential J class paying passengers from flying to making AC profitable. Your comments seems to contradict my perception of the rules in this regard and since I am sure you know more about the upgrade rules (which I understand from you are NOT given only in space available basis?) I apologize for my mistake.

Again you seem to focus on the amount of money spent. I (unlike you or others it seems) do not spend money on flights solely to earn status and perks and then calculate what this "status" have cost. People of that kind would probably get a US AMEX Centurion card right away. I love to travel, meet new cultures and places. If this lifestyle allows me to get treated better by airlines at large then that is wonderful - I will even make a few changes and maybe fly a little more to make that happen. I have not even flown AC yet so the question is of course how much these certificates really matter. I could always ask what the chances are of a gate upgrade with Elite status and one of the certificates even on another class (that being a lower class that "just anybody" can buy.

Was it a bad day? I am sorry. Hope the new day will be better for all.

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Goldlust

[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 04-01-2001).]

I think the only difficulty with this is that there are many frequent travellers who are not prepared to spend more than 1000$ flying between Toronto and Heathrow, upgrades or not.

My Mum is a frequent business traveller, and spends tens of thousands of dollars on international and intra-european travel each year. But she would not spend more than say, 8 or 900$ on a return ticket to London. In her case she had preferred BA because they had good connections, and fairly reliable o/s upgrades across the Atlantic. This virtue may change as WT+ is introduced, however, and Club upgrades might become a thing of the past. I still have not gotten a clear answer yet from BA on how they will modify their upgrade proceedures to accommodate WT+.

The comment is that upgradeable "C" for Elites or lower (and sometimes upgradeable "C" for SuperElites which involves using a seat from the J class inventory) on this routing (and perhaps all routings between LHR and the various cities in Canada) are so booked in business class, that it is virtually impossible to get a seat, right now.

Hopefully, this changes with the introduction of the Virgin service, and the continuing improvement of BA service (in business and first classes), and perhaps the introduction of Canada 3000/Royal business class service, so that a greater number of passengers take advantage of those airlines' premium services, allowing for a lower load factor (and therefore a higher likelihood of upgradeability) in the business class cabin in AC planes to and from LHR.

SE's do not upgrade into J, we upgrade into C like everyone else. We can take reward seats from J if D is sold out and the flight is not oversold.

I doubt very much that C3K is going to introduce a business class product. I am not even sure that the "Royal Class" experiment is going to survive the merger.