Useless systemwides?!
 

Since I am going for AC Elite this year (as some of you might recall) I called Aeroplan to ask what kind of upgrade certs they would send me since I live in Denmark - and when (I have 29.000 Qmiles now).

I was told that they did not send out Prestige kits mid-year but they would send out a package when I qualified for Elite.
Also, worse, they told me, that I would be sent systemwides good for upgrade on the following classes:
Y

and

Y

and

Y

Hmm. Y? Y? Why, why, why? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
A Y ticket costs a fortune - so I'll have no use for these certs.

What do I do?

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Goldlust

That's all Elites get unfortunately. No different over here. All Elites get systemwides from Y/M fares. You should also get some North American upgrade certificates that are good from V class fare and higher.

To get systemwides from V class fare, you need to become Super Elite. This is no different than most ff programs that I know. Only top tier flyers get systemwides from any (or at least some discount fares).

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US Airways is the exception http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I thought Aeroplan only sends out Elite Systemwides to non-NAmerican members since it assumes they will have no need for the NAmerican "almost any fare" upgrades. I don't know why you should be expecting anything more, Goldlust? If you could show you do make a lot of intra-Canada/U.S. trips on AC, I am sure they would send you NAmerican upgrades instead.

As I have noted in the past, Aeroplan's elite tiers are actually customized to meet the needs of those travel patterns most likely to yield the appropriate status. Elite is achieveable quite easily by doing a few intercontinental trips, but its benefits are tailored primarily to the NAmerican traveller. It is deemed most likely that an Elite will have earned the status by doing a lot of NAmerican travel -- and maybe an intercontinental trip or two -- and thus benefits like NAmerican "almost any fare" upgrades are considered quite appropriate to their primary need. As is MLL access, and STARGold benefits when travelling outside Canada. The Systemwides are thrown in as an additional perk, to be used or not on NAmerican or interncontinental routes. [I suspect this is why AC gives STARGold to this level of traveller, knowing it is not as essential in their travel patterns, but acknowledging they have still achieved top tier status appropriate to their pattern of travel.]

SElite status cannot really be earned just doing NAmerican travel unless you are a Member of Parliament who crosses the country just about every other week. Thus the benefits of upgrading from "almost any fare" Systemwide are considered appropriate to the needs of these primarily intercontinental travellers. But can also be used by any domestic travellers who happen to have this frequency of travel.

I assume you picked Aeroplan as a program based on the premise that it required the least amount of travel [35K Q-miles versus 50K] to reach Elite status, and thus have access to STAR Gold benefits. Which is fine, but what other benefits could you expect for so little travel internationally? It really seems the LH or even UA programs might have given you the benefits you really want, though I don't know if LH provides upgrades as liberally as even AC, and UA's upgrades until you reach 1K are similar to AC's in fare requirement on intercontinental flights, I believe. [BB is the expert on such things.]

AC is not going to give away its J class seats on its most lucrative routes to just anybody. That's why they require a Y fare until you reach SElite. Whatever gave you the idea you would get "almost any fare" upgrades at the Elite level to begin with? Not from anything we've posted. And why should you get treated differently than the rest of us NAmerican-based Elites?

So look at the bright side, you will hold Elite status through Feb 2002, as well as through Feb 2003. Which means you have STAR Gold for almost two full years. And if you happen to be on an oversold transAtlantic flight in the back cabin, you are most likely to get an operational upgrade over non-status travellers. And this could also apply to other STAR carrier flights that need to find people to upgrade. I figure these benefits are appropriate for having spent under $3K to achieve.

But then you only get 2 with US as a middle tier flyer and then there are no more (unlike SE's who get 2 every 10k status miles). I guess Chairman's Preferred (top tier) get 4 but 2 of them are only good for a companion.

But US's North American upgrade program is much more generous than AC's.

Consider this ...

LHR-YYZ-LHR in Y class fare = $1616
LHR-YYZ-LHR in J class fare = $7811

A s/w upgrade saves a lot of money. They are definitely not useless. In this case two s/w coupons are worth $6195 !!!!

[edited to correct figures]

[This message has been edited by After Burner (edited 04-01-2001).]

LH gives one systemwide (ie 2 European) upgrade for every 100k status miles! You can, however, purchase upgrades with miles (only 20k for one-way to Europe!)

That's true BlondeBomber. While in terms of eligible fares, US is the most generous, but then it's only good for one round trip. I suppose the only way one could clean up is by earning Silver, get the kit, then earn Gold, get the kit, then earn Chairman's Preferred, get the kit.

While US carriers in general have a more liberal upgrade policy, AC makes up for it by including lounge access. The value in that alone can be as high as US$450/yr.

Goldlust... if you don't wan't them I'll take them off your hands http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So FlyerAl, April Fool's jokes aside (see US Air thread about cancellation of UA merger), do you see any change in your travel loyalties if US merges with UA and the systemwide upgrades for Gold and the N. American upgrades revert to a UA system?

Is it all dependent on what airlines fly most convenent schedules on the routes you fly or do you base it significanly on ff scheme benefits?

BlondeBomber, yes I thought that was a funny joke on the US board. Wishful thinking indeed http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I have mixed feelings about the merger. Is it so necessary for UA to buy the airline in order to have a strong north-south network on the East Coast? UA could certainly expand IAD operations to achieve that. Will UA really make full use out of hubs in PIT, PHL, and CLT? I also have a hard time believing US executives that this merger is detrimental to the airline's survival. US was doing well on its own - nice new Airbus aircraft, International expansion, and a generous frequent flyer program. If they wanted to have a fully national route network, they could've achieved that by merging with HP. But unfortunately, US' executives are eager to sell so they can make a quick buck before retiring. Whatever happened to the days when airlines were run by people passionate about the industry?

On the other hand, US benefits by joining a global alliance - something they lacked since the break-up with BA. In terms of FF benefits, I'm hoping that if the merger goes through, the systemwides US provides to all their elite members would be valid on UA flights (SYD, here I come http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ) But I'll miss the ease of claiming awards on US (waved blackout dates for elites), and the friendly, small airline atmosphere that currently exists.

At this point it's hard to say if this will affect my loyalty to the airline. I'm using last year's SWUs to fly YYZ-PHL-FCO in May, then I'm flying on a real cheap BUF-BWI ticket in June, and I have planned an award res for YHM-PIT-LAS in December. If UA maintains the routes and fares after the merger, I may consider them - but my heart will always lie with AA http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dear Shareholder. Thank you for replying to my message. I seem to have inadvertently offended someone in some way. That certainly was not my intention. My sole intention was to show my lack of satisfaction with the fact that the certificate can only be used if flying Y class - not even M anymore.
As stated in other posts by e.g. stargold AC will gladly exchange European AC Elite's systemwides with NA certificates. And clearly no history of flights in North America is necessary.

I am sure that is a sound theory.

...and the money or will to buy an international Y class fare.

I disagree strongly that flying more than 35.000 miles a year is little. If AC thought that was "little" they surely would not award people Elite status for flying this amount.


With all possible respect: I am 19 and although I am also Shareholder (who does not own stocks these days) I do not have unlimited financial abilities. I am at least doing okay for my age I would say. The difference here being that I do not aggressively assault people of less income than myself verbally when they express sadness with regards to the fact that their limited money prevents them from taking advantage of certain offers. You write as though I have attacked you or this board in some way. I fail to see how that could be the case in any way - and how you could possibly think that. I guess I am being treated differently than North American AC members since we get different certificates. I think the question you wanted to ask was "Why should you be treated better than the rest of us North American-based Elites?" The answer is of course: I should not. What on earth gave you the idea that I thought so? Certainly not from anything I've written. I've tried to be nice to everybody here and I enjoyed meeting many from FT at the Do in NYC recently. Also, I have not written that I had any idea that I would be able to upgrade from V and H fares as Elite - I am actually quite aware that only SE are able to do so. My sadness was with regards to AC taking the M booking class off the certificate. Also, I almost take offence to you referring to people like me as "anybody." When I make Elite I will be as much Elite as everybody else.

With regards to J class seats I guess I have misunderstood - have a little tolerance for a newbie. I was under the impression that upgrades were only given on a space available basis and as such would not really preclude potential J class paying passengers from flying to making AC profitable. Your comments seems to contradict my perception of the rules in this regard and since I am sure you know more about the upgrade rules (which I understand from you are NOT given only in space available basis?) I apologize for my mistake.

Again you seem to focus on the amount of money spent. I (unlike you or others it seems) do not spend money on flights solely to earn status and perks and then calculate what this "status" have cost. People of that kind would probably get a US AMEX Centurion card right away. I love to travel, meet new cultures and places. If this lifestyle allows me to get treated better by airlines at large then that is wonderful - I will even make a few changes and maybe fly a little more to make that happen. I have not even flown AC yet so the question is of course how much these certificates really matter. I could always ask what the chances are of a gate upgrade with Elite status and one of the certificates even on another class (that being a lower class that "just anybody" can buy.

Was it a bad day? I am sorry. Hope the new day will be better for all.

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Goldlust

[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 04-01-2001).]

I think the only difficulty with this is that there are many frequent travellers who are not prepared to spend more than 1000$ flying between Toronto and Heathrow, upgrades or not.

My Mum is a frequent business traveller, and spends tens of thousands of dollars on international and intra-european travel each year. But she would not spend more than say, 8 or 900$ on a return ticket to London. In her case she had preferred BA because they had good connections, and fairly reliable o/s upgrades across the Atlantic. This virtue may change as WT+ is introduced, however, and Club upgrades might become a thing of the past. I still have not gotten a clear answer yet from BA on how they will modify their upgrade proceedures to accommodate WT+.

The comment is that upgradeable "C" for Elites or lower (and sometimes upgradeable "C" for SuperElites which involves using a seat from the J class inventory) on this routing (and perhaps all routings between LHR and the various cities in Canada) are so booked in business class, that it is virtually impossible to get a seat, right now.

Hopefully, this changes with the introduction of the Virgin service, and the continuing improvement of BA service (in business and first classes), and perhaps the introduction of Canada 3000/Royal business class service, so that a greater number of passengers take advantage of those airlines' premium services, allowing for a lower load factor (and therefore a higher likelihood of upgradeability) in the business class cabin in AC planes to and from LHR.

SE's do not upgrade into J, we upgrade into C like everyone else. We can take reward seats from J if D is sold out and the flight is not oversold.

I doubt very much that C3K is going to introduce a business class product. I am not even sure that the "Royal Class" experiment is going to survive the merger.

AC*SE: I even have serious doubts that Roots Air will survive.

"My sole intention was to show my lack of satisfaction with the fact that the certificate
can only be used if flying Y class - not even M anymore."

I still cannot comprehend your reason for posting in the first place, or for even joining Aeroplan rather than the LH or SAS programs which are designed for people based in your part of the world. Aeroplan is essentially a FF program for NAmerican travellers, and high yield business people based outside NAmerica. Benefits of elite status are thus designed to meet the needs of those travellers. That was the point of my post, to clarify your apparent miscompreshension about the benefits you will get when you achieve Elite status.

"My sole intention was to show my lack of satisfaction with the fact that the certificate can only be used if flying Y class - not even M anymore."

As for not having access to upgrades from M class on intercontinental routes, I believe this in your mind was based on a major misunderstanding of AC fare classes. Unlike many carriers, AC has never had a M-class fare for other than NAmerican routes. And in this situation, it was not a deeply discounted economy fare, but a moderately discounted, 3-day advance purchase fare. On some carriers, M-class is in fact a deeply discounted economy fare for intercontinental travel. This has never been the case on AC. I suspect this is why you are so upset. But AC has made no change to the use of these upgrade certificates. The upgrade fare code always reflected the fact that Elite/Prestige Systemwides could only be used with M fares on NAmerican routes. And on intercontinental flights from Y. As we have seen posted elsewhere, a Y-class fare can be as low as $1,600.

I realize for a 19-year old, C$1,600 is a lot of money. But that's life. These elite level programs are not intended for the casual traveller who pays for their own travel -- though a few are able to spend wisely and achieve Elite or even SElite status with an outlay of C$6,000 or so — but rather to cater to, and build customer loyalty from, those who travel frequently and will contribute to AC's bottom line. You may think this is a lot of money, but the point is, one can achieve Elite on the same amount of money that one might buy a return J-class ticket between Canada and Europe. It is not a lot of money when most elites spend in excess of C$50,000 on their air fares in a given year. (Just check some of the posts around FlyerTalk and you will quickly confirm this.)

As for the issue of upgrading, this is a privilege for those who spend alot with AC, not an entitlement.

From your original post, I read a tone of deep disappointment that you would not be able to upgrade on a trip from Europe to Canada when paying for a C$800 ticket. Well, that is true. You wouldn't be able to unless you achieved SElite. I still stand by more original statement that AC's priority is to sell of these seats first, then provide upgrades to its best customers. Into this category, you most certainly do not fall.

Let's face it. You may well have joined the wrong FF program. You admit yourself to never having flown AC. Do you ever plan to fly this airline? What other reason, then could you have for joining Aeroplan than to try to benefit from its lower Q-miles requirement for Elite status, and thus STARGold status. Membership in a FF program first and foremost has to be decided on the benefits it provides based on your travel pattern.

Can you at least explain to us why you selected Aeroplan rather than any of the other European based programs? Maybe then we can understand you motive for feeling cheated. That's the clear message I got from your post, and thus the reason for my response yesterday, and this one today. Just because you like to travel is not a valid reason. Let's just consider you mis-invested and now have a stock that is not worth as much as you felt it would be. That's life. You're young. You'll get over it and learn from this experience.

Am I being hard on you? Yes, probably. But I am just pointing out that your entire post has been predicated on a mis-understanding about AC's M-class fares. And thus the value of upgrades you would be getting as an AC Elite. As an AC shareholder, I figure you'll have a valid complaint when you've actually flown on the carrier and contributed something to its bottom line. Then you might deserve a perk or two. As it stands, AC will be paying your way into STAR lounges for the next two years, so you've gotten something from them. But until you start flying seriously, you really have no case for complaint. Graduate, get a job, earn lots of money, and see the world. You've got a lot of living yet to do, and a lot of flying. And lots of elite status perks to use. And you've learned a useful lesson.

I didn't get the impression that goldlust was profoundly disappointed although sometimes it might come across that way on the net.

Just the normal grousing on these boards.

Shareholder does have a point though. For what reason did you join Aeroplan? The Star Alliance comparison chart has been published so you should have known what you were getting and been happy with that product. 35k for Star Gold is a great deal, especially if all you really want is lounge access and a better shot at operational upgrades.

I didn't take the responses as an attack, just a grousing about someone who is grousing http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel recommendations: http://www.flyersplaces.com

Goldlust, if it makes you feel any better, I always fly on the cheapest available fare. That means I never use my upgrade certificates. I am also an Elite.

This doesn't bother me too much because I know I could get an upgrade if I was willing to pay more. I'd rather buy a cheaper ticket, sit in the back, and have enough money for more trips.

I do not know that much about the LH program but I can tell you that I get no special deals from becoming Gold on SK that I would miss if becoming Elite on AC instead. SK gold is pretty much Star Gold and nothing more. That you would even suggest that I try to become SK Gold instead shows great ignorance on YOUR part. I know it can be difficult for a person of limited tolerance to comprehend but there might actually be people - even 19-year-olds - that know MORE about the EuroBonus than you do.

When I did a search on my recent trip to Vancouver it suggested a travel plan with M class international segments that seems to contradict your derogatory speech. The representative I spoke to in Aeroplan made it pretty clear that it was a change in rules that now meant ONLY Y and no longer M.




So far this year I've spend around C$2000 on air travel and I'm going to spend more than that. I'm well aware that I have (or rather: is about to) achieve Star Gold at a very good "price" meaning the grandtotal of my air travel spending. I've never expressed anything else!


If AC really wanted to reward only those spending a lot (NOT me) and not those TRAVELLING a lot (ME) then they would design their program the way e.g. Virgin Atlantic have done where Upper Class passengers get 10-12 points where Economy passengers get 2. They have not, so they probably want to reward those flying a lot also - regardless of class.



If you read my others posts on this board you would see that I've written very clearly that my first and foremost reason for joining AC was the low * Gold requirement. If you did some research in the posts I would not have to write this AGAIN. I don't really think I need to explain myself to you.



I am sorry but THAT'S THE LIMIT! Some people who live sad lonely lives as complete losers unfortunately get satisfaction out of trying to patronize those people that have good lives. I hope that me allowing you to do so againts me has let to some ease (however brief) of you psychological suffering. Examples:
You use the pronome "we" and "us" when writing. YOU are the only one who does not know why I have joined Aeroplan. Everybody else on this board seems to know or they would ALSO ask. Also, YOU are the only one who read my post as though I feel "cheated" by AC - I don't, why should I? I am very happy with AC and I will use their program for as long as they fit my travel needs the best and with my current travel patterns that means as long as they require only 35.000 miles for Elite. Yes I am young but it seems I am a lot more adult than you will ever be. Or at less as much NOT adult as you ARE http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


Your writing proves your very narrowminded way of looking at the world. 1) "Graduate" - you probably don't know what I do. To think that going to University (Yes, no college here, that's something we don't have in my country) will get you money automatically seems very ignorant. 2) There are many ways to succeed!

When someone has succeded at life he certainly does NOT waste time patronizing a teenager from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. This should be clear. Need I say more, or do you get what I mean? Am I being hard on you? Probably but I am just so tired of all those nuts not going to treatment when they need it so badly. Don't worry, you will get over it - after some electroshock treatments at which time I'll be happy to accept your apology for being so cruel http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I considered myself to be able to take insults well but Shareholder has proven me wrong on that.


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Goldlust

[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 04-02-2001).]

dup

[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 04-02-2001).]

That's my thinking exactly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Goldlust, I think it's a safe bet (IMO) that something like this is coming. I don't think it's that AC wants to reward low yield customers that travel a lot. More likely it's the difficulty involved in implementing a system that can distinguish between high yield and low yield customers.

Also, I didn't read Shareholder's post as derogatory. He was just expressing another point of view.

If/when I qualify for Aeroplan Elite later this year I could always use the systemwides to upgrade a MHD right?

Yes, but with all the MHD's that I've priced the fare difference between Y and J is so small that it wouldn't be worth using upgrade coupons. Also, the upgrades coupons can only be used on AC metal, not MX.

I would say it would be better for you to buy a Y2UK fare (about CAD 1500) from LHR to YYZ. Spoil yourself in J on that run.

I do not understand the last statement.

PS-I assume that the fare quoted is a 1-way fare, for a purchased fare - I assume that one can not purchase a C class fare on that route?

If an economy fare seat is bought, what are the chances on that particular route, that a non-SE can ever upgrade, taking account of the load factors in the business class cabins of flights between Toronto and London, UK?

WELL SAID GOLDLUST!!!!!

I coulnd't be more in agreement with many things you've said. Many a time, I've not posted a discussion topic, in anticipation that it wouldn't provoke fruitful discussion, but rather condescending remarks from people like Shareholder who sometimes no more, but usually just think they know more, and choose to lip off at us lower class 'people' with Prestige status or no status at all.

As part of my PRESTIGE package this year, I also received 2 system wides, which can only be used from Y fare. NOT 1 Q MILE IN 2000 WAS EARNED FROM A Y FARE. As SHAREHOLDER will surely assume that I think I am entitled to some upgrades, let me state that I don't.

I appreciate that AC chooses to reward me for my loyalty, but I'm confused why they would reward me with something that has a high perceived value to AC, and a low perceived value to me.

Shareholder states the the Aeroplan program is designed to do this and do that....but both Shareholder and Air Canada have sadly missed the golden rule of business, which is to MEET CUSTOMER NEEDS.

I'm currently happy with my Aeroplan membership, simply becasue I don't feel I have much of a choice for Airline loyalty programs based on the travel I need/want to do. And based on this current scenario, I feel Aeroplan offers me more than I could get otherwise. However if in the future, I as a customer, find another alternative to Aeroplan, I'll make a conscious decision of where to send my loyalty....and if comes down to Upgrade Certs only good for Y fares, AC is probably going to loose out.

$1600 probably sounds like a great deal to some of you, but it's not to me. If I have to go to London for work, and there's another lower fare, then I simply can't justify paying a higher price, if my boss were to inquire about it. Personally, if I needed to go to London, i'm just not paying $1600. I'm only 28...I think I'm doing pretty good, but I don't got $1600 to burn. The fact is, I would find another way to get to London.

BOTTOM LINE: 2 System wide from Y class is worth $0 to me. I have two available, free to a good home...first come first served. If someone wishes to offer something in return, it would be greatly appreciated, however they are worthless to me, so I don't mind fronting the stamp in this case...even for you Shareholder.

Time for me to jump in to the fracas. (I have no status whatsoever on AC, BTW.)

Aeroplan offers Elites North American (YMBHVT) and systemwide (YM) upgds. Many people will find the systemwides not too useful because they are restricted to full fare Y/M. If I were Elite, I'd be in complete agreement. There's no way I'd shell out full fare Y from my own pocket and this darn thing called a conscience prevents me from spending my employer's on full Y on business trips when getting a far better fare is so easy. So these systemwides would be useless for me too. I guess for you overseas Aeroplan Elites, the frustration is compounded by getting all Y/M systemwides in place of the YMBHV North American upgds (AC thinks that those wouldn't be useful to you in any case since you don't live here).

So looking at all this you value your useless systemwides as having $0 value. Fine. I would see it that way too. I just look on the bright side and think of how much easier it makes my decision not to bother with AC and Aeroplan at all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Aeroplan does offer the lowest Q-mile requirement to reach Star Gold status and I imagine that has a bearing on your decision to go with Aeroplan? So, find a good home for your systemwides -- you'll have lots of new friends. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Join the dark side ... be a oneworld fanatic.

FewMiles..

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oneworld comparison chart 2001: coming soon

mjschill, since you are new to the boards you are likely quite unaware that I have led the fight for more benefits to PRESTIGE members. Not only on this forum, but in meetings with Aeroplan excutives. PRESTIGE is one of the least rewarding tiers of any FF program, and its benefits need to be enhanced. My argument with GoldLust has been summed up very nicely by FewMiles. Also, I believe that if one belongs to a FF program, one should at least fly with that carrier. He does not agree, preferring codeshare partners to AC itself. And his only motivation for selecting Aeroplan was the lower STARGold level it offers. Fine, that means living with the rest of the benefits, or non benefits. As to Goldlust's other comments about me, I will let them rest as rantings of a a callow youth.

Thought I'd join this good discussion.

I'm a transplanted Canuck living and working overseas and I am proud to have moved up to AC Elite this year from Prestige. Last year I had to ration my upgrade certificates that I received when I moved into Prestige, as they were few and far between. It also doesn't help that the "systemwides" only cover Y class tickets from Europe.

In December 2000 I ended up making a trip to Canada that moved me past 35K into Elite. I am not at all disappointed as to the number of upgrades I now have (11 systemwide, 4 North America). I received a slew of them when I requalified for Prestige, and then when I passed 20K and 30K. A bunch more arrived with my Elite package last month.

I likely won't even have the opportunity to use them all. I'm heading to Canada next week from LHR (bought a Y class ticket for $1,000 USD) and will only use two upgrades. I've been able to plan out an MHD, all in J class, so I won't need any upgrades on that mileage run.

Overall I am impressed with Aeroplan and I go out of my way to fly AC and other *A partners when possible. (I use BA Exec Club if I have to...)

Hopefully with three or four trips to Canada and a couple of MHDs this year, I'll cruise beyond AC*E into AC*SE for 2002...

mjschill, Actually the YYZ-LHR-YYZ fare is closer to $3000. I'd be very interested to know where one can get a lower fare than this. I haven't been able to find one.

AfterBurner --

LHR-YYZ-LHR on AC, Y class ticket, $1,024 USD (approx $1,600 CAD). I speak from experience on this as I purchased this exact ticket today. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

Maybe the other way around YYZ-LHR-YYZ is more expensive?

Exactly. The Y2UK fare is about $1500 CAD, LHR-YYZ-LHR.

The Y2 in the other direction is closer to $3000.

Go figure.

Yes, it's cheaper originating in LHR. My question for mjschill, however, is how to avoid paying either of these Y-class fares.

Afterburner....with absolutely no sarcasm, I would approach the situation like every other I've faced in my life....I would just figure it out.

Some people don't like or understand that response, and my wife hates it. However, it's the attitude that has allowed me to get where I happily am today. In my mind there is no problem without an optimal solution to be had.

I don't know the exact answer to your question, but give me the motivation to find a solution, a telephone, map, internet connetion, and about three hours and I am 100% confident I could provide you with a better alternative than an AC Full Y fare.

If my motivation is Business related, I would pay the full Y fare, if there were nothing lower available. I know there are some people who can't avoid this, however to this point in my career where I've had responsibility for my own travel budget, I have never been faced with this situation.

Sorry...I forgot my last paragraph.

There is a catch to my response. It's called a tradeoff. What I described in the post above is exactly how things like the MHD are born. My wife almost lost it when I told her I was considering a cheaper way to Calgary, which required me to make a trip to Ottawa first, and stop in LAX, MEX, CUN, MEX, and ORD to do it.

My wife once wanted me to cash in AA points to get her YYZ-YVR on two days notice. The AA agent was very helpful, and did indeed find a routing YYZ-LGA-MIA-DFW-YVR.

So, in my mind it really is all about trade offs. ((Not talking Business travel)) If you had to go to London, would you be willing to save $1500 (an example) by taking the bus to St. John's, a train to Halifax, driving to Boston, or cashing in some points to fly to Atlanta first. Some would and some wouldn't...but none the less it would still have financial gains over a direct $3000 flight on AC.

Know where you are, know where you want to be, identify your resources and constraints and figure out the best way to get there.

How many points did that cost you? Most US airlines like NW would charge two tickets for that itinery... so a total of 50,000 points.

mjschill, from your post I thought you were referring to business travel. It is my understanding that a discounted fare to LHR requires a 7 day stay and at least 7 day advance booking. These are conditions (especially the 7 day stay) that are nearly impossible for business travel.

I just stumbled across this post. I met Goldlust in NYC last month, and we were on a day tour with echelon which was great fun. He is a bright young man, and I'd die for his linguistic skills, as English believe it or not is NOT his first language. Spent an afternoon with shareholder same weekend, and was shown the highlights of The Met. All 3 of us will be in Cannes, and even possibly Vancouver next month? Hope these nice guys can share a Carlsberg or a Labbatts or whatever together then and laugh about this clashing of swords! I wish I'd been able to earn an Elite card of any airline at 19, and Goldlust can pick up plenty of great AC tips from the very seasoned AC fliers here. And tip #1 Goldlust is the higher up the FF tree you get with any airline, the better the deal - the better the perks, remember that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


And for any who are not aware, the VANCOUVER FT Weekend is May 18-20:

http://www.lava.net/~susanj/vancouver.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000840.html

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~ Glen ~