|
AC*SE: I even have serious doubts that Roots Air will survive.
|
"My sole intention was to show my lack of satisfaction with the fact that the certificate
can only be used if flying Y class - not even M anymore." I still cannot comprehend your reason for posting in the first place, or for even joining Aeroplan rather than the LH or SAS programs which are designed for people based in your part of the world. Aeroplan is essentially a FF program for NAmerican travellers, and high yield business people based outside NAmerica. Benefits of elite status are thus designed to meet the needs of those travellers. That was the point of my post, to clarify your apparent miscompreshension about the benefits you will get when you achieve Elite status. "My sole intention was to show my lack of satisfaction with the fact that the certificate can only be used if flying Y class - not even M anymore." As for not having access to upgrades from M class on intercontinental routes, I believe this in your mind was based on a major misunderstanding of AC fare classes. Unlike many carriers, AC has never had a M-class fare for other than NAmerican routes. And in this situation, it was not a deeply discounted economy fare, but a moderately discounted, 3-day advance purchase fare. On some carriers, M-class is in fact a deeply discounted economy fare for intercontinental travel. This has never been the case on AC. I suspect this is why you are so upset. But AC has made no change to the use of these upgrade certificates. The upgrade fare code always reflected the fact that Elite/Prestige Systemwides could only be used with M fares on NAmerican routes. And on intercontinental flights from Y. As we have seen posted elsewhere, a Y-class fare can be as low as $1,600. I realize for a 19-year old, C$1,600 is a lot of money. But that's life. These elite level programs are not intended for the casual traveller who pays for their own travel -- though a few are able to spend wisely and achieve Elite or even SElite status with an outlay of C$6,000 or so — but rather to cater to, and build customer loyalty from, those who travel frequently and will contribute to AC's bottom line. You may think this is a lot of money, but the point is, one can achieve Elite on the same amount of money that one might buy a return J-class ticket between Canada and Europe. It is not a lot of money when most elites spend in excess of C$50,000 on their air fares in a given year. (Just check some of the posts around FlyerTalk and you will quickly confirm this.) As for the issue of upgrading, this is a privilege for those who spend alot with AC, not an entitlement. From your original post, I read a tone of deep disappointment that you would not be able to upgrade on a trip from Europe to Canada when paying for a C$800 ticket. Well, that is true. You wouldn't be able to unless you achieved SElite. I still stand by more original statement that AC's priority is to sell of these seats first, then provide upgrades to its best customers. Into this category, you most certainly do not fall. Let's face it. You may well have joined the wrong FF program. You admit yourself to never having flown AC. Do you ever plan to fly this airline? What other reason, then could you have for joining Aeroplan than to try to benefit from its lower Q-miles requirement for Elite status, and thus STARGold status. Membership in a FF program first and foremost has to be decided on the benefits it provides based on your travel pattern. Can you at least explain to us why you selected Aeroplan rather than any of the other European based programs? Maybe then we can understand you motive for feeling cheated. That's the clear message I got from your post, and thus the reason for my response yesterday, and this one today. Just because you like to travel is not a valid reason. Let's just consider you mis-invested and now have a stock that is not worth as much as you felt it would be. That's life. You're young. You'll get over it and learn from this experience. Am I being hard on you? Yes, probably. But I am just pointing out that your entire post has been predicated on a mis-understanding about AC's M-class fares. And thus the value of upgrades you would be getting as an AC Elite. As an AC shareholder, I figure you'll have a valid complaint when you've actually flown on the carrier and contributed something to its bottom line. Then you might deserve a perk or two. As it stands, AC will be paying your way into STAR lounges for the next two years, so you've gotten something from them. But until you start flying seriously, you really have no case for complaint. Graduate, get a job, earn lots of money, and see the world. You've got a lot of living yet to do, and a lot of flying. And lots of elite status perks to use. And you've learned a useful lesson. |
I didn't get the impression that goldlust was profoundly disappointed although sometimes it might come across that way on the net.
Just the normal grousing on these boards. Shareholder does have a point though. For what reason did you join Aeroplan? The Star Alliance comparison chart has been published so you should have known what you were getting and been happy with that product. 35k for Star Gold is a great deal, especially if all you really want is lounge access and a better shot at operational upgrades. I didn't take the responses as an attack, just a grousing about someone who is grousing http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif ------------------ ------------------ BlondeBomber's Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart 2001: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel recommendations: http://www.flyersplaces.com |
Goldlust, if it makes you feel any better, I always fly on the cheapest available fare. That means I never use my upgrade certificates. I am also an Elite.
This doesn't bother me too much because I know I could get an upgrade if I was willing to pay more. I'd rather buy a cheaper ticket, sit in the back, and have enough money for more trips. |
Originally posted by Shareholder: I still cannot comprehend your reason for posting in the first place, or for even joining Aeroplan rather than the LH or SAS programs which are designed for people based in your part of the world. Aeroplan is essentially a FF program for NAmerican travellers, and high yield business people based outside NAmerica. Benefits of elite status are thus designed to meet the needs of those travellers. That was the point of my post, to clarify your apparent miscompreshension about the benefits you will get when you achieve Elite status. As for not having access to upgrades from M class on intercontinental routes, I believe this in your mind was based on a major misunderstanding of AC fare classes. Unlike many carriers, AC has never had a M-class fare for other than NAmerican routes. And in this situation, it was not a deeply discounted economy fare, but a moderately discounted, 3-day advance purchase fare. On some carriers, M-class is in fact a deeply discounted economy fare for intercontinental travel. This has never been the case on AC. I suspect this is why you are so upset. But AC has made no change to the use of these upgrade certificates. The upgrade fare code always reflected the fact that Elite/Prestige Systemwides could only be used with M fares on NAmerican routes. And on intercontinental flights from Y. As we have seen posted elsewhere, a Y-class fare can be as low as $1,600. I realize for a 19-year old, C$1,600 is a lot of money. But that's life. These elite level programs are not intended for the casual traveller who pays for their own travel -- though a few are able to spend wisely and achieve Elite or even SElite status with an outlay of C$6,000 or so — but rather to cater to, and build customer loyalty from, those who travel frequently and will contribute to AC's bottom line. You may think this is a lot of money, but the point is, one can achieve Elite on the same amount of money that one might buy a return J-class ticket between Canada and Europe. It is not a lot of money when most elites spend in excess of C$50,000 on their air fares in a given year. (Just check some of the posts around FlyerTalk and you will quickly confirm this.) So far this year I've spend around C$2000 on air travel and I'm going to spend more than that. I'm well aware that I have (or rather: is about to) achieve Star Gold at a very good "price" meaning the grandtotal of my air travel spending. I've never expressed anything else! As for the issue of upgrading, this is a privilege for those who spend alot with AC, not an entitlement. From your original post, I read a tone of deep disappointment that you would not be able to upgrade on a trip from Europe to Canada when paying for a C$800 ticket. Well, that is true. You wouldn't be able to unless you achieved SElite. I still stand by more original statement that AC's priority is to sell of these seats first, then provide upgrades to its best customers. Into this category, you most certainly do not fall. If AC really wanted to reward only those spending a lot (NOT me) and not those TRAVELLING a lot (ME) then they would design their program the way e.g. Virgin Atlantic have done where Upper Class passengers get 10-12 points where Economy passengers get 2. They have not, so they probably want to reward those flying a lot also - regardless of class. Let's face it. You may well have joined the wrong FF program. You admit yourself to never having flown AC. Do you ever plan to fly this airline? What other reason, then could you have for joining Aeroplan than to try to benefit from its lower Q-miles requirement for Elite status, and thus STARGold status. Membership in a FF program first and foremost has to be decided on the benefits it provides based on your travel pattern. If you read my others posts on this board you would see that I've written very clearly that my first and foremost reason for joining AC was the low * Gold requirement. If you did some research in the posts I would not have to write this AGAIN. I don't really think I need to explain myself to you. Can you at least explain to us why you selected Aeroplan rather than any of the other European based programs? Maybe then we can understand you motive for feeling cheated. That's the clear message I got from your post, and thus the reason for my response yesterday, and this one today. Just because you like to travel is not a valid reason. Let's just consider you mis-invested and now have a stock that is not worth as much as you felt it would be. That's life. You're young. You'll get over it and learn from this experience. I am sorry but THAT'S THE LIMIT! Some people who live sad lonely lives as complete losers unfortunately get satisfaction out of trying to patronize those people that have good lives. I hope that me allowing you to do so againts me has let to some ease (however brief) of you psychological suffering. Examples: You use the pronome "we" and "us" when writing. YOU are the only one who does not know why I have joined Aeroplan. Everybody else on this board seems to know or they would ALSO ask. Also, YOU are the only one who read my post as though I feel "cheated" by AC - I don't, why should I? I am very happy with AC and I will use their program for as long as they fit my travel needs the best and with my current travel patterns that means as long as they require only 35.000 miles for Elite. Yes I am young but it seems I am a lot more adult than you will ever be. Or at less as much NOT adult as you ARE http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Am I being hard on you? Yes, probably. But I am just pointing out that your entire post has been predicated on a mis-understanding about AC's M-class fares. And thus the value of upgrades you would be getting as an AC Elite. As an AC shareholder, I figure you'll have a valid complaint when you've actually flown on the carrier and contributed something to its bottom line. Then you might deserve a perk or two. As it stands, AC will be paying your way into STAR lounges for the next two years, so you've gotten something from them. But until you start flying seriously, you really have no case for complaint. Graduate, get a job, earn lots of money, and see the world. You've got a lot of living yet to do, and a lot of flying. And lots of elite status perks to use. And you've learned a useful lesson. When someone has succeded at life he certainly does NOT waste time patronizing a teenager from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. This should be clear. Need I say more, or do you get what I mean? Am I being hard on you? Probably but I am just so tired of all those nuts not going to treatment when they need it so badly. Don't worry, you will get over it - after some electroshock treatments at which time I'll be happy to accept your apology for being so cruel http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif I considered myself to be able to take insults well but Shareholder has proven me wrong on that. ------------------ Goldlust [This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 04-02-2001).] |
dup
[This message has been edited by Goldlust (edited 04-02-2001).] |
Originally posted by StuMcIlwain: Goldlust, if it makes you feel any better, I always fly on the cheapest available fare. That means I never use my upgrade certificates. I am also an Elite. This doesn't bother me too much because I know I could get an upgrade if I was willing to pay more. I'd rather buy a cheaper ticket, sit in the back, and have enough money for more trips. |
If AC really wanted to reward only those spending a lot (NOT me) and not those TRAVELLING a lot (ME) then they would design their program the way e.g. Virgin Atlantic have done where Upper Class passengers get 10-12 points where Economy passengers get 2. They have not, so they probably want to reward those flying a lot also - regardless of class. Also, I didn't read Shareholder's post as derogatory. He was just expressing another point of view. |
If/when I qualify for Aeroplan Elite later this year I could always use the systemwides to upgrade a MHD right?
|
Yes, but with all the MHD's that I've priced the fare difference between Y and J is so small that it wouldn't be worth using upgrade coupons. Also, the upgrades coupons can only be used on AC metal, not MX.
|
I would say it would be better for you to buy a Y2UK fare (about CAD 1500) from LHR to YYZ. Spoil yourself in J on that run.
|
I do not understand the last statement.
PS-I assume that the fare quoted is a 1-way fare, for a purchased fare - I assume that one can not purchase a C class fare on that route? If an economy fare seat is bought, what are the chances on that particular route, that a non-SE can ever upgrade, taking account of the load factors in the business class cabins of flights between Toronto and London, UK? |
WELL SAID GOLDLUST!!!!!
I coulnd't be more in agreement with many things you've said. Many a time, I've not posted a discussion topic, in anticipation that it wouldn't provoke fruitful discussion, but rather condescending remarks from people like Shareholder who sometimes no more, but usually just think they know more, and choose to lip off at us lower class 'people' with Prestige status or no status at all. As part of my PRESTIGE package this year, I also received 2 system wides, which can only be used from Y fare. NOT 1 Q MILE IN 2000 WAS EARNED FROM A Y FARE. As SHAREHOLDER will surely assume that I think I am entitled to some upgrades, let me state that I don't. I appreciate that AC chooses to reward me for my loyalty, but I'm confused why they would reward me with something that has a high perceived value to AC, and a low perceived value to me. Shareholder states the the Aeroplan program is designed to do this and do that....but both Shareholder and Air Canada have sadly missed the golden rule of business, which is to MEET CUSTOMER NEEDS. I'm currently happy with my Aeroplan membership, simply becasue I don't feel I have much of a choice for Airline loyalty programs based on the travel I need/want to do. And based on this current scenario, I feel Aeroplan offers me more than I could get otherwise. However if in the future, I as a customer, find another alternative to Aeroplan, I'll make a conscious decision of where to send my loyalty....and if comes down to Upgrade Certs only good for Y fares, AC is probably going to loose out. $1600 probably sounds like a great deal to some of you, but it's not to me. If I have to go to London for work, and there's another lower fare, then I simply can't justify paying a higher price, if my boss were to inquire about it. Personally, if I needed to go to London, i'm just not paying $1600. I'm only 28...I think I'm doing pretty good, but I don't got $1600 to burn. The fact is, I would find another way to get to London. BOTTOM LINE: 2 System wide from Y class is worth $0 to me. I have two available, free to a good home...first come first served. If someone wishes to offer something in return, it would be greatly appreciated, however they are worthless to me, so I don't mind fronting the stamp in this case...even for you Shareholder. |
Time for me to jump in to the fracas. (I have no status whatsoever on AC, BTW.)
Aeroplan offers Elites North American (YMBHVT) and systemwide (YM) upgds. Many people will find the systemwides not too useful because they are restricted to full fare Y/M. If I were Elite, I'd be in complete agreement. There's no way I'd shell out full fare Y from my own pocket and this darn thing called a conscience prevents me from spending my employer's on full Y on business trips when getting a far better fare is so easy. So these systemwides would be useless for me too. I guess for you overseas Aeroplan Elites, the frustration is compounded by getting all Y/M systemwides in place of the YMBHV North American upgds (AC thinks that those wouldn't be useful to you in any case since you don't live here). So looking at all this you value your useless systemwides as having $0 value. Fine. I would see it that way too. I just look on the bright side and think of how much easier it makes my decision not to bother with AC and Aeroplan at all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Aeroplan does offer the lowest Q-mile requirement to reach Star Gold status and I imagine that has a bearing on your decision to go with Aeroplan? So, find a good home for your systemwides -- you'll have lots of new friends. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Join the dark side ... be a oneworld fanatic. FewMiles.. ------------------ FlyerTalkers' Resources on the Web: http://home.webflyer.com/fewmiles/ Unofficial Guide to AAdvantage: http://home.webflyer.com/fewmiles/AA/ oneworld comparison chart 2001: coming soon |
mjschill, since you are new to the boards you are likely quite unaware that I have led the fight for more benefits to PRESTIGE members. Not only on this forum, but in meetings with Aeroplan excutives. PRESTIGE is one of the least rewarding tiers of any FF program, and its benefits need to be enhanced. My argument with GoldLust has been summed up very nicely by FewMiles. Also, I believe that if one belongs to a FF program, one should at least fly with that carrier. He does not agree, preferring codeshare partners to AC itself. And his only motivation for selecting Aeroplan was the lower STARGold level it offers. Fine, that means living with the rest of the benefits, or non benefits. As to Goldlust's other comments about me, I will let them rest as rantings of a a callow youth.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:45 pm. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.