FewMiles

Well folks, I made it in to YYZ last night.

CP 954 YEG-YYZ.

Scheduled departure 1440, actual pushback 1517. I was told at check-in that the flight was delayed by half an hour. "Is it chaos in YYZ?" I asked the check-in agent. "I haven't heard anything first-hand," she replied. I am pretty sure it was delays in YYZ. Apparently, CP computers kept going down the whole day. The flight crew gave strong winds as an explanation though.

Strong tailwinds were supposed to give us a shorter than usual 3 hours 1 minute flying time, but from my window seat vantage point, I could see we had made a slow descent to YYZ and made a couple of large circles before finally landing. Fairly heavy aircraft traffic for a Saturday evening.

Plane parked at gate 2055. I got into the terminal at 2100. While waiting 20 mins for luggage (T2 domestic), I remarked how grungy looking the baggage claim area is. Yuck. The departure gates area looks fairly nice though.

I'll post a more complete trip report when I get back.


FewMiles..

ALW

BB, do SEs get access to _International_ MLLs any time they please, or only when flying internationally? And of course the same question applies to Es, i.e. do we get access to an International MLL when we're on a domestic or transborder flight? I think there was an MLL in T2 down by the international gates? I never tried to get into that one when I was flying domestic or transborder.

Certainly the AC site implies we do, but of course it also says (well I couldn't find it but I'm sure it's there) that they reserve the right to limit access at any time due to crowds. Although this new T1 lounge is big, it's surely an unusual situation to have large international flights (including 747s) sharing a lounge with dozens of puddle-jumpers.

Fisch's other thread on the subject certainly sounds like he's been given unequivocal "no"s from MLL staff!

andrew




[This message has been edited by Andrew Webber (edited 06-04-2000).]

BlondeBomber

Yes SE's can access International MLLs any time they please, even if they are not flying (provided they can get a gate pass). The only place you cannot get gate passes (according to the rules) is transborder at Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and London Heathrow. That means every where else you are entitled to lounge access even if you are not flying.

The rules state " you can enter a Maple Leaf lounge regardless of the airline you fly, even when you're not travelling that day*
*-request a gate pass at the check-in/ticket counter except for Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver US Transborder lounges and London Heathrow lounge.

. . . you are also welcome to bring one guest or any immediate family members with you into the lounge . . . guest privileges depend on space availability."

As I recall the Elite rules, you only have to have a same day boarding pass. There is no distinction between transborder, international and domestic lounges. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

There is no restriction on the member for access -- only the guest if there are space limitations. If it was that crowded, I may not want to be there (or at the airport for that matter).

I can't understand the MLL staff's answer to Fisch but then we all run into poorly trained staff on occasion. They first tried to say I couldn't use the MLL in Ottawa last weekend (tried to get a gate pass). When I insisted, they talked to someone else and got the OK. There were additional problems at security but I got them sorted out real quick too. I won't take no for an answer if I have the rules in front of me.

Fisch

Ok, I called AC Elite line and asked about the lounge issue on regional flights at T1. They put me on hold and called the MLL in T1. They say that it is a go for access.

One question? How could they allow someone to access an international secure area who is not flying international. Wouldn't that mean that once they were done in the MLL, they would have to clear Canada Customs prior to their regional flight?

BlondeBomber

I don't know the layout of T1 but when I fly out of YUL or YYC internationally, I just use the MLL lounge which is right next to the departure gates for domestic and international travel. Planes come into a secure area but leave via unsecure.

If T1 at YYZ is set up in such a way so that you cannot access a secure section (like US Transborder at T2), then you will be stoppered! If you can access it, there is no problem. Maybe one of our AC employee readers can fill us in on the physical arrangement of the MLL with respect to regional and international flights, ie. just behind standard security or behind some sort of "secure" in transit type area like at LHR.

I must admit I have not encountered a "secure" MLL where international flights depart at YOW, YVR, YYC, YEG, YUL, YHZ but have never flown internationally (only flown transborder) out of YYZ.

Dorian

BB, what do you mean a secure MLL? Is the International MLL @ YYZ not 'secure'?

Dorian

BlondeBomber

I presume Fisch means "secure" in the way the US transborder areas (and their associated MLLs) are secure. Once you are past security you are not in an area where you can just get back out to Canada without going through Customs. I presume this is why you can't get a gate pass at LHR as you would have to come back out through Customs.

I have never been in the Toronto international section (new or old) so am clueless to its "secure" status. I gathered from some of the posts regarding flying from US to HKG that it was not secure as people always had to exit to customs, ie no in transit.

ALW

I don't think there's any area other than transborder that would not be accessible if American rules applied (i.e. if one could get through the metal detectors at security).

Now transborder is a different story, hence the exceptions noted by BB.

andrew

A Flygirl

BB I don't think access to the MLL in T1 will be a security problem. It is on the mezzanine level (above departures and adjacent to the upper parking level). Other employee lurkers might be able to clarify that for you but the pretty color map I have does not show it behind any security checkpoint.

I plan to go out on a familiarization run myself this week to check out the new digs at both terminals so I will have more concrete information after that. I've been grounded lately on a medical leave but want to scout things out before I return to work soon.

Fisch, as a possible answer to your query of no separate Elite check in at T1 for AO; this might be because the checkin counter areas are not all set up and operational yet. If this service is provided in other, smaller cities, I cannot imagine it being excluded from YYZ, the biggest hub. Give it until Jun 15th, when AC says all checkin counters will be installed and if it is still missing...calmly but emphatically scream about it at the top of your customer valued lungs!

YYZ

I was one of the first to arrive in YYZ on June 3 after the terminal switch. A bit more of a nuisance than I thought...

Flight 950 YEG to YYZ departing 6:30 am.

Flight on time, arrives YYZ on time - 11:47am.

Going to new gate at terminal two - Gate 76.

Wait a minute... gate 76 has about five lugagge carts in front of it. "Sorry about the delay... we have to wait for the luggage carts to be removed..."

Canadian grounds crew ready to unload plane, unfortunately luggage carts are AC equipment, so have to wait for AC crew to remove carts.

20 minutes later... carts removed, get to gate.

"Please be seated and patient again. CP's employees not used to operating gates at Terminal 2"

10 minutes later... off plane. Go to get luggage. 1/2 hour wait, all the economy bags off... still no J class bags. Four of us there looking stunned... Oh! There is a Priority Baggage Handling Belt on the other side of the baggage claim!! Sure enough, our bags are there.

Left on CP from Terminal 3, therefore have to catch shuttle bus back to Terminal 3 to get car. One bus passes, terminals 1 and 2 transfer only. Second bus, same thing. Third, and fourth go by. Finally, fifth bus comes that goes to all three terminals. Packed bus. Full of passengers. Bus driver goes to get coffee. Comes back. Bus then goes to Terminal 1. Very angry at this point. Wait... time to switch drivers. 1:35 pm... finally arrive Terminal 3 and get to car.

I guess it could have been worse...

BlondeBomber

Thanks A Flygirl.

YYZ: that's partly why I am flying via YVR and YUL until YYZ gets sorted out. Hope it is smoothly running by mid-July when I will go through there again.

Shareholder

So they are using the old restaurant in T1 as the new MLL. From the description in the advance material it sounded like the lounge was actually on the roof of the parkade, not just the "donut".

Like others, I don't know of any terminals in Canada where international flights use a sterile facility in the sense that you have to clear immigration for a passport check such as is frequired in most other countries. I know they tend to restrict entry with a cursory ticket check (T3 used to post someone midway down the international wing) to international travellers, and don't permit you to leave once you've entered that area. If the MLL is airside, then it would appear co-mingling with Air Ontario passengers is permitted since they do advertise the use of the tunnel for faster connections to domestic flights at T2. Though they might have a cursory security check which streams people in one direction for Air Ontario commuter flights, another for international.

But given the patterns of international flights, the MLL will be deserted for most of the day, and likely only get busy after 5 pm for European/South American flights, and early and mid-morning for flights to the Carribean and Orient. There would be some arrival traffic mid-afternoon from Europe and Asia.

By the way, is there a separate Arrivals Lounge in YYZ now, or is it an integral part of the MLL? Arrivals Lounges are generally landside, since you must clear customs/immigration and get your bag...

MD

I am now back at work where I have my internet connection and so I can post my experiences at YYZ T1 on Saturday. As I posted to start this thread, I was only a chauffeur, and not a traveler, so I did not have the full terminal experience.

Driving in, I noticed that almost all the signs telling you which terminal to use have a "New" sign beside them. Air Canada and Canadian have a new sign after all the others, that says what we all know, Canada/US T2, International T1. Only problem was that they left the last "n" off of Canadian. Oh well.

Next, they had portable flashing signs announcing "Airlines have moved - Check your terminal". A bit late I thought, I had already passed all of the information signs.

I followed the signs to T1. The road has been reconstructed and now takes you right underneath the construction for Tnew which is progressing nicely. However, the same access road under the tarmac still exists, so this will be a bottleneck. Into the garage, and past several closed floors (salt damage). I ended up getting a spot right by the elevators on level 5. The elevators themselves have not been refurbished, but all 5 were functioning.

Upon getting to the departures level, I noticed that it had a new coat of paint, and was looking pretty sharp. Half of the check-ins were open (the rest open June 15 I was told). There was lots of staff on - most standing around looking bored. It was before the rush though of the evening European flights. (I was there for a pickup from AC843 from Glasgow at 1310).

Most of the check-in people were idle; there were no lineups. I asked about the MLL, and was pointed in the direction of 2 Elevators in the centre of the back hallway. No signs were up that indicated that the MLL was there - I suppose that they will be installed soon. However, my Elite card was not enough to get me into the lounge. Right off of the elevator, there is a security checkpoint, and one needs a boarding pass to show to the friendly security people. They said that there was a another way out direct to the flights, so users of the MLL would not go through another checkpoint. This is one clever way of having dedicated J-class security! I asked at the checkin but was told that gate passes were not available. I think that I would have had to leave through customs, so I think that the MLL will only be available to those with boarding passes. Not being able to enter I could not see if the Air Ontario Pax would be able to use the lounge, and I did not think to ask as I would personally only rarely use Air Ontario.

I then saw signs for the tunnel and followed them to see where I could go. It took me down two escalators and down a hall. There I again met up with security and was told that the other end of the tunnel (in T2) is airside, so again I could not pass. I do not know if there is a way up to the airside in T1 before that security point.

I then went to the arrivals level to wait for the flight. There is a carousel at one end for Air Ontario checked luggage, and another at the other end to take away connecting passengers luggage, I suppose to T2. There was not much else on that level except for the car rental agencies. I suppose that I will not have to apologize to my international colleagues anymore for the long walk from international arrivals (esp T2 gate 115) to the car rentals!)

The flight arrived 2 minutes late (as posted on the nice flatscreen monitors, which actually give some information!) It took a while for the bags to come out, but then I met my friends and was on my way.

In summary, I was impressed with the new look and feel on the old terminal. I used to hate it when I would arrive from IND on Usair. It seems to be much improved.

Time will tell as more of us get to use it fully.

MD

One other thing that I forgot to post above. The signage says that Qantas is operating out of T1 - dose this make sense? I would have thought that they would want (insist) on being with BA and AA, their oneworld brothers?

YYZAC

YYZ, there are some glitches in the system.

I am not going to put all CP/AC employees into the same basket (but there are some bad apples on both sides). Some think that causing a disservice to the customer is going to railroad the Airlines to merge the senoirity. Well we all know that won't happen.

I know if we at AC pulled that stunt We would have an Unpaid vacation.

Like I said in an earlier Post please give yourselves ample time to the flight. Be patient with the agents as we are still working on orienting ourselves.

As far as MLL access is concerned I see no reason why you can not visit once you have passed through security. You are still within Canada and have not been precleared by any foreign Customs Service.(The only place you can't mix pax is in Transborder, Only because it is considered the U.S of A)

I am on the last of my days off today, Tomorrow I get to see how life is since the move.... I'll leave an update and I hope I can find out more of the MLL access issue.

Regards YYZAC