pegasus8228

johan and bp88,

first, thanks so much for your reply and kindly help.

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johan,

yes. we are first time visitors. i am most interested in the big mammals, and of course all those other native animals. (for a first time visitor, i guess every animal is exciting to me)
-- for free animals (i.e. not in zoos), i have only been seeing those deer/elk/moose/bear in yellowston and alaska before.
(birds and trees are nice too, but as first time visitor i think we are primarily going for what we cannot find in Asia or US -- we have some other species of 'free' birds and trees here, even in the city of HK. but large animals are wiped out my human being )

the 2 options are given by an agent i searched through the internet, if you have suggestions it would be great!

i think the first option is camp in camp in the "Timbavati site in the Kruger National Park".
in the pictures i was given i saw 2 beds inside a tent. they said there will be shower facilities/etc.

-- given the weather condition in winter perhaps i should go for lodges?
-- i figure the merit of staying in the camps is that we will be much closer to the nature and animals (perhaps some sighting in the camps), and it saves a lot more time driving in dusk and dawn?
i am struggling between these 2 options.

price is not too much of a concern, i am willing to spend up to some 20-30k (2 pax) for the 6 day/5 nite trip. on the other hand, we dont require too much luxury, cleanlines is important though -- WARM and CLEAN environment with hot water shower will suffice.

i think the deciding criteria for us is the better use of time and best viewing of games. then we think about warm and cleanliness. price and luxury are not important.

so here are my specific questions:
1. suggestion for camp inside the park vs lodge (and if you have other suggestions than what i got from this agent, eg what tour operator, what lodge to stay, etc. it would be great!!!)
2. we are there 6/13-23. hoping to spend 6 days in safari, and 4-5 days in capetown. current hypothesis is to go for a 6-day safari then fly to CPT and rent a car there. and i try to avoid JNB due to safety issues (because i am bringing my wife with me)
3. so far i only have a ticket to JNB (ticketed last year before AA inflated the CX award price on First), so i am open to any suggestion.

thanks again!!


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to bp888,

there is a link in your first post in this thread which doesnt seem to work. don't worry if u think all the info are already well covered in this thread...thanks!

johan rebel

OK, I shall answer your questions comprehensively as soon as I get around to it, no later than this weekend.

Can you clarify this "camping site in Kruger" reference? Is there any mention of "Mathikitiki" (the spelling varies!) or "Destination Kruger Park"? Can you indicate which of the many safaris offered on http://flyinglions.safari.co.za/ you are talking about? Tour code?

The issue is a bit confusing, because Timbavati is not only the name of a river, but also that of a picnic site in Kruger, as well as of the adjacent private game reserve. To make matters worse, Conservation Corporation operates a lodge (Ngala) and a tented camp (Ngala Tent Camp) which are located on properties in the Timbavati reserve, but which are at owned by the state and technically part of the Kruger National Park (KNP)proper! On top of this, there are several private concessions within the KNP that operate on the same principles as lodges on private land.

johan

pegasus8228

john,

the code code is kudu.

6 day Kudu Safari – http://flyinglions.safari.co.za/6-day-kudu-safari.html

i clicked through the link to the map and saw the end of the route at the timbavatic picnic site, NW-N of Satara.
below is what the agent told me:
"The mobile tented camp is a permanent camp about 30km from Satara, away from tourist roads – this is in the central part of Kruger National Park and not in the TImbavati. The camp has lots of trees and tents are placed further from each other to give more privacy. Each tent has en suite eco friendly specially designed flush toilets as well as hot and cold showers. In the camp there are also an outdoor bush shower and a flush toilet for those who would prefer to shower outside."
so i think it fits the category of operator's set up inside KNP, and i think it is in the picnic site

many thanks again

dan

johan rebel

OK, I know the place. More info to follow. In the meantime, take a look at http://www.ecoafrica.com/krugerparksafari/ .

johan

johan rebel

Right, here goes :

The camp at Timbavati picnic site is operated by Destination Kruger Park, owned by Hennie van Deventer in Hoedspruit, an old hand in the safari business. The following information is based on my visit in September 2002.

The Kruger National Park (KNP) is open to the general public, who can drive along a network of roads in the own vehicles. The Timbavati picnic site is located on a bend in the Timbavati River, near the intersection of three public roads. It offers barbecue facilities, flush toilets, cool drinks and is popular with visitors. The caretaker and his family live some 300 meters upriver, just out of sight of the picnic site, and this is also where the tented camp is located. This location is not perfect. There is a lack of shade trees, and the caretakers house is located between the camp and the river. At the time, there was talk of moving the camp to a more suitable location a short distance further upriver, but I do not know whether this was ever done (South African National Parks (SANParks) is famous for its burocracy, it can take time to get things moving, so to speak).

The tents, new a the time of my visit, were fairly small, but perfectly adequate. They were equipped with chemical toilets, but we were encouraged to use the flush toilets at the picnic site whenever possible. The latter did not flush in the mornings, because the caretaker who switched on the pump was not an early riser.

Food was nothing fancy, but tasty and plentiful.

Game viewing activities consisted of game drives and night drives in open vehicles, as well as walks. The former two use the public road network, which can detract from the experience. Fortunately the camp is located some distance from the nearest public rest camps (Satara and Olifants/Balule), so few other vehicles are encountered in the early morning and evening. Walks are often conducted on the other side of the Timbavati River, an area closed to the general public.

This particular part of Kruger is excellent for game viewing, and the road running along the Timbavati River is, in my opinion, the prettiest road in the central section of the KNP. The river itself is seasonal, and should be dry in June. There will be pools of water here and there, and a short distance downstream from the camp the Piet Grobler Dam will probably hold a considerable amount of water and attract a lot of thirsty came. There is also a pumped water hole only a hundred meters or so from the camp, but out of sight. By sheer chance, the camp is located at a point where the territories of three prides of lions meet, if you are lucky they will roaring around camp all night long.

Compared to private game lodges, the game viewing in Kruger is almost invariably better, both in quantity and quality. The advantages of Kruger are its size and diversity, combined with a very well laid-out and maintained road network. If you are an experienced game spotter, know the KNP very well and plan and conduct your game drives carefully, you should see a lot of game. Given the restrictions imposed on guests in Kruger (stay on the road, etc. etc.), this is amazing. If you lack the experience, a qualified game ranger will do the job for you. The one employed at Timbavati in 2002 was excellent (although some lions caught him by surprise one morning, but that’s a different story. Very funny, too).

A visit to a private lodge is a rather different experience. First of all, such lodges are located either on private land or in exclusive concessions in national parks. The number of guests is small and the lodges are generally (fairly) luxurious. Compared to Kruger, private lodges operate in much smaller areas (10,000 hectares is considered big), but the network of roads (tracks would be a better word) is much denser. Driving off-road is also permitted in most instances. The local rangers and trackers are also intimately familiar with the area in which they work, know their local animals, and are experts at tracking them down. Searching for and finding specific animals is one of the more exciting experiences.

Most private lodges start with an early morning game drive, with a break for tea or coffee en route. After breakfast or brunch at the lodge a walk is offered (not recommended in summer! Walking through the bush on a full stomach in 40°C heat is not something I enjoy.), and the late afternoon game drive is preceded by (high) tea. After a break for sundowners the game drive continues as a night drive, a spotlight is used to look for nocturnal animals. Upon return to the lodge dinner will be served. There are all sorts of (seasonal) variations on this theme, but the above should give you an idea.

On the downside, private lodges tend to focus almost exclusively on the large and hairy (the Big Five). This is not a problem if you are a first time visitor, but it can be if your interests are broader or you are staying for more than two or three nights. Every new guests that arrives needs to be shown the Big Five, and because the vehicles operate in a fairly small area you stand a good chance of seeing the same animals over and over again. Sleeping lions are boring at the best of times, seeing the same ones every morning and afternoon is not necessarily all that entertaining.

I have not been to Elephant Plains, so I can not comment on that specific lodge. It is located close to the northern boundary of the Sabi Sands, and I am only familiar with the eastern and southern parts (Mala Mala, Sabi Sabi, Nottens). Latest visit was in October of last year. These areas suffer from an excess of what is euphemistically termed “habitat management”, i.e. the provision of pumped water holes, dams, bush and tree clearing, etc. The first time visitor will probably not notice that the environment is far from pristine, but I do not find it all that appealing.

To answer your original question, which safari to choose, I would probably recommend the private lodge. Even though it may partly be an illusion, the game viewing experience will feel “wilder”, and certainly more exclusive. On the other hand, a visit to the KNP will give you a much better idea of what the South Africa bush looks like. Game drives will be conducted in a variety of habitats, which attract different game. For example, large herds of blue wildebeest and zebra will be encountered in some parts of Kruger, but not in the Sabi Sands.

Its a tough call!

I’ll be happy to answer and further questions you may have.

johan

fallinasleep

johan, thanks again for a very informative post on South Africa ^

pegasus8228

thanks so much johan!

it sounds it is a tough call, and i don't lose either way.
i also think i will go there again in the future.

so, i am more inclined to view KNP (for the pristineness, which might disappered if i return a few years later). and save the private lodge for my next visit.

johan rebel

My pleasure.

It would be nice if you would post your impressions here when you get back home.

johan

bp888

As OP, I want to thank all the kind respondents to rhis thread. We went to South Africa in mid-March for 3 weeks and came back home with the resolve that we'll go back again soon.

So time for me to share my experience. Let me preface by saying all of my impressions, comments and opinions are based on only one experience last month at KNP and a PGL.

First, I'll address the safari issue by using johan rebel's lengthy and comprehensive posting as the basis of my "talking" points:

I totally agree. Only at KNP can one really experience the expanse of Africa. Going in to the safari, I thought I, like most everybody, would be swept away by the quest to see the Big 5. I saw 4 out of 5 (we couldn't spot a leopard). But the lasting memory that will stay with me is the "bigness" of KNP. It's something I will never forget nor could have imagined. This park is HUGE!

Given that, I honestly can't see how an outsider could do justice to the park by self-driving. I can imagine one would be driving through the park rather aimlessly.

The safari itself (both early morning and late afternoon drives) was as I envisioned it. We oohed and aahed at the first sights of impalas, of elephants, etc. After a while, it became rather predictable. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it. But my lasting impression is not so much the safari drives but being there itself.

The camps at KNP are nice in a basic sort of way. No luxury here, but then again, no luxury promised either.


The "luxurious" aspect of the PGL we stayed at is, IMHO, rather exagerrated. We stayed at Chitwa Chitwa and I was frankly underwhelmed. You want luxury, visit any of the Aman resorts in Asia. When I first arrived at the PGL and given a tour by the guide, the impression that kept coming to mind wasn't so much how luxurious the place was but rather what's it doing in the middle of nowhere. Somehow it just seemed so incongruous to the surroundings. The food was plentiful but mediocre (again judging by Asian 5-star resort standards).


Agree. The only thing I would add is that in our case the various rangers in the private game reserve (Sabi Sands) kept in constant radio contact with each other the whole time so we could all meet up for the rendezvous. Maybe it's me but I found the coffee break and afternoon sundowner to be rather distracting to the purpose of the drive itself. It seemed to me that our ranger spent more time driving towards the rendezvous points. When I talked to the other guests, most concurred with this opinion.


This is what I mean by it being predictable. So I would say for a first-timer who just wants a drink from the fire hose, a few nights would suffice at BOTH KNP and PGL. We stayed 2 nights at KNP and 2 nights at PGL.

One more thing, between the dawn drive and the dusk drive, there's absolutely nothing to do. At the PGL we stayed, they would only allow us within the confines of the lodges. So bring your own entertainment.


Well said.




Other random thoughts:

• Cape Town is a wonderful place to visit. And people everywhere are friendly. For such a beautiful city I wonder why there aren't more tourists.
  
• Cape Town is not a late-night type of a city. The only semblance of a night life is a short ride across the mountain to a seaside upscale residential town called Camps Bay.
  
• As soon as the first opportunity opens up to visit Table Mountain, drop eveything you're doing and do it. Forget about schedules. Table Mountain is more often than not enveloped in a thick cloud. So as soon as the weather permits, head out there.
  
• Rented a car from Avis in Cape Town mid-way through our stay there. Avis delivers the car to your hotel and picks it up again when your rental period is over. Very civilized. For the days that we stayed in Cape Town, we did not have the car and moved about using taxis and the free shuttle (and not-free water taxi) from the hotel (ArabellaSheraton Grand). We only used the rental car to venture out of Cape Town.
  
• Driving is so much fun in South Africa. They have a surprisingly extensive road network. And the "yield to faster traffic by moving to the shoulder" practice is excellent. I wonder why the rest of the world doesn't adopt this. It would eliminate a lot of road rage.
  
• We had wonderful times at Cape Point (day drive), Hermanus/coastal route (overnight), Winelands (Stellenbosch) and Knysna (2 nights). Didn't go as far as Port Elizabeth. MAybe next time.
  
• Deeply touched by the visit to Robben Island. But make sure you have the stomach for the boat ride, which can get rough on windy days.
  
• The danger some people ascribe to JNB airport is IMHO overblown. THe walk from the international terminal to the domestic terminal was a fairly long hike. Plus you have to push your cart up the inclined electric walkway to get to the departure level in the international terminal. So don't do it yourself, hire a porter. If memory serves, the porters wear green uniform. Contrary to what someone posted elsewhere in this forum, we were not met by a horde of touts. So relax.
  
• At JNB as soon as you exit the restricted area, head down to the nearest ATM and get your Rands. No need to get this ahead of time in your city of origin. The rates at the ATM will be most advantageous to you. Be sure to withdraw some not-so-round amount (like 990) so you can be dispensed smaller notes to pay the porter along with your hundred noters.
  
• Outside of the very public and tourist areas, be careful when withdrawing at ATMs.
  

lcole24

I have been reading your posts all morning and have already learned so much, thank you for all your insight and amazing breadth of knowledge. I'll be traveling to South Africa, Vic Falls and Kenya, in June as part of my first RTW trip. We've done a lot of research on the itinerary so far, but I wanted to run it by you to see how we're doing. The key factor here is we're three young women (23) who are on a tight budget but with an adventurous spirit, and we have 1 month in Africa. We can hack it in rugged circumstances, we just want to be safe.

As of now, we arrive in Cape Town, spend 4-5 days there exploring, rent a car to drive the Cape for 1-2 and wine country for 1-2. Then we train or fly to J-berg (cheapest?) and the next step is giving us trouble. Either we fly on to Kruger and spend a few days there with a rented vehicle (I don't think we can afford a safari but I'm afraid we won't see enough in Kruger without knowing the park well), or we fly straight to Vic Falls and do 4-6 days there. We want to go to Vic Falls regardless, stay in hostels, river raft, ride the gorge swing, etc. but like I said the budget is tight. From Vic Falls we fly to Nairobi (probably by way of J-berg but if you know cheaper options please let me know) for a Savuka tours 5-day, 4-night safari in the Masai Mara and Lake Nakuru, before going to Nanyuki to visit friends at Mpala and climb Mt. Kenya with a hired guide. We leave out of Nairobi for Mauritius.

Are we trying to pack in too much? We're budgeting about $1000-1500 for this whole portion, is that feasible? FYI the safari is $375 U.S. so it isn't too bad. The biggest question is do we visit Kruger or skip it, and how do we get from the south to Kenya. Is there a train that runs along that route? Do you know much about One World's airpasses? Those seem like a viable option if I can only find them! No luck yet on the web.

Weather conditions I've heard can be rough in the mornings, thanks for that info. Please pass along any other helpful info I may have missed, because like I said, I'm a first timer and doing my best to soak it all in. Thank you!

Tango

If you visit the One World web site, there is a drop down box for visit passes. If you are going to fly from JNB to Vic Falls, the One World pass will cost you $125 plus tax. It needs to be booked in L class so you need to book this leg ASAP since there is only one flight a day. Kruger and Vic Falls are both on the top ten list of things to do---I would try to fit in both as 4-6 days at Vic Falls is a bit much and you will more than likely end up doing lots of side trips.

johan rebel

Tough call, but I lean towards recommending that you give Kruger a miss. The Masai Mara has almost all the large mammals that occur in Kruger, and on a guided safari you stand a good chance of seeing most of them. Kruger has far more rhinos, and they are more easily seen, but there are a few black rhino in the Masai Mara too. The cheapest way of doing Kruger is by driving yoursef, but this is not something I would recommend to a game viewing novice, you would be relying too much on luck and chance.

I agree with Tango that 4-6 days at Victoria Falls is a bit long. 3 nights, giving you two full days, should suffice. However, that all depends on your personal interests. Apart from the adventure sports there are the falls themselves, sundowner cruises on the Zambezi, the seldom visited but excellent Zambezi National Park, Livingstone just across the river in Zambia (with Mosi-Oa-Tunya National Park, which has white rhinos, albeit only half a dozen or so), etc.

johan

lcole24

Thanks for the advice, the day trips around Vic Falls are particularly helpful. We still haven't decided on whether to hit Kruger or skip it, but the deciding factor is going to be how we get around in Africa. Is the only way to get from J-berg to Vic Falls, then Vic Falls to Nairobi to fly? If we skip Kruger we may have enough time to take a train up North, but I don't know if one even exists. Any ideas?

johan rebel

Flying JNB (Johannesburg) - VFA (Victoria Falls) is certainly the easiest and fastest way. Avoid Air Zimbabwe (UM) like the plague, they are not very reliable. SAA has daily flights. You could also fly to LVI (Livingstone) on the Zambian side of the falls. Livingstone has become increasingly popular since uncle Bob decided to single-handedly ruin Zimbabwe whilst enriching himself and his cronies.

You can get from VFA to NBO in a number of ways :

VFA-JNB-NBO
VFA-HRE-NBO (HRE = Harare) Operated by UM, so not a good idea.
LVI-JNB-NBO
LUN-NBO (LUN = Lusaka). Operated by KQ (Kenya Airways, one of Africas more reliable airlines. You would have to catch a bus from Livingstone to Lusaka. It is not all that far, but traveling by bus in Zambia is a, shall we say, "interesting" experience.


I know little about rail travel in southern Africa. I do know that South Africa puts illegal immigrants on trains back to Zimbabwe, so there is a scheduled service of some sort. There are also trains between Bulawayo and Victoria Falls, which used to be very popular with tourists.

It is possible to drive from South Africa to Victoria Falls. Due to fuel shortages in Zimbabwe the direct route via Beit Bridge is not recommended. Driving through Botwana and entering Zimbabwe at Kasane is a better option.

johan

Tango

The OW visit Afirca pass information can be found here: http://www.oneworldalliance.com/prod...fm?ObjectID=22

Intercape bus lines does operate between JNB and Vic Falls. Air travel can be the fastest way to get from point A to B but flights are very limited and if you end up waiting half a day or more to catch your flight, the bus may make more sense.